Gordon Browns Pre-Budget Report.

[Callisto]

A newsworthy and discussion worthy subject which most of the other threads in 'News' arn't atm. So anyone feel like having a proper discussion about a subject which will affect us all?

Just in case it's passed you by because you're all too busy arguing about thread titles heres a link: here

Although I think extra money for families in the later stage of pregnancy is welcome, I'm unsure as to the ins and outs of how this will be administered. I'm a bit 'meh' because i had my children before child trust funds and the higher chb in the first year was brought in, so i want a refund . additionally i feel that it sets a precarious line for feotal viability - advances in medical science have given premature babies a far better chance of survival, but this makes me a little uneasy with regard to late abortion (obviously no one prefers a 2nd term termination, but sometimes they may be necessary - i see the award of child benefit in utero to possibly herald a change in abortion law, but then I'm a scare mungerer...)

incidentally - the child benefit law at the moment regard a still birth is that no child benefit is paid, whilst for the death of a child ( sorry to mention horrible subjects) child benefit is paid for a further eight weeks. there would need to be a chnage in law regarding stillbirth and the payment of child benefit.

fuel and flight taxation = great, but possibly not enough to discourage un-necessary flight with relation to carbon emmissions.

Can I be a real cynic about extra taxes to "cut carbon emissions": as long as we all keep buying cheap goods from places like China that have no environmental controls at all, it's a complete joke for us to pay extra taxes for this reason. Also, think of the carbon emissions from transporting stuff half way round the planet. I've just done a quick sweep of objects to hand to see where they are made, and it seems like everthing from my jeans, to dd's reusable nappies to her 'Born in Wales' teddy are made in China. Plus my farming friends really do need 4x4 vehicles - I actually can't get to my friend's house in my non 4x4 if it is raining heavily, as her unpaved access lane turns into a stream.

Spin.

I couldn't agree more w/Roska.

Until they actually invest a LOT in public transport, and have excellent public transport that is reliable and doesn't cost the earth IN PLACE, all taxing the motorist even more is going to do is penalise A LOT of people who can least afford it.

For example, you live in a semi-rural area b/c it's the only place you can afford the rent on a place large enough to house your small family.

Of course, you have to commute into a larger town to work.

No train link.

Instead, you have to rely on First buses.

But you work at a hotel, restaurant or bar b/c, after all, tourism is about the only industry in a lot of these places.

And whaddya know, First buses don't accommodate your shifts.

You have NO choice but to use a car to get to work.

But Brown never had to live that life.

So to him, this 'moderate' tax is enough to make your life there unsustainable.

Another reason not to vote Labour - they're so short-sighted it's beyond a joke.

Persephone I think your point about child benefit and abortion laws is a good one and something I wouldn't have thought of. I think it is a good idea to pay child allowance before the baby is born (we all know how expensive kitting out your first baby can be) but the start time is questionable and I would love to know the thinking behind it.

As far as the green taxes go I agree Roskva and Expat. It is all show. The Stern report was ignored and I hear on the news this morning that Proffessor Stern has been 'frozen out' by Gordon 'control freak' Brown. Unfortunately the poor will be hit by any tax on transport but a sliding scale might work(ie less if you live in the country, more in town, huge amounts if you have a town and a country house).

Totally agree with you expat on the public transport issue.

the anti-car and anti-school run lobby conveniently ignore the fact that many parents of school age kids also have pre-school kids in buggies and are effectively barred from all forms of public transport (stairs to platforms, not being allowed onto crowded buses). And it really isn't a small % of the population who are affected.

Brown just irritates the hell out of me, because he just-can't-help-himself. He just has to keep tinkering around the edges adding increasing cost and complexity for individuals and small business (you pay us x, we pay you back w, we duduct z, wtf?) without hitting the big issues (tax and benefits balance to incentivise a productive, motivated society).

From a business perspective, he's proving Sir Digby Jones' predictions correct: he said Brown would cost the economy a trillion by chasing the last million...because he-just-can't-help-himself.

Personally, I'm ready for a brave, radical, controversial approach, and Brown won't deliver it. In fact we're never going to get that while govts' term in power is limited to 4yrs.

Tax tax tax... see how little we can all live on before the economy takes a nose dive.

I agree with you completely, Brummie. The problem is that no-one in the current government has ever worked in the private sector - they are all career politicians, spin doctors, unionists, public sector rejects and/or sycophants, who have no idea what running a business is like. They're quite good at spending other people's money because they have never had to worry about where it comes from. The amount of red tape that Brown has introduced is mind boggling, back door tax increases through things like the climate change levy have a bigger proportional impact on small businesses who can least afford it, and things like minimum wage increases way above inflation have hit us hard. Whilst I don't begrudge paying my staff, businesses cannot pass the same percentage increases on to customers, so we end up working harder to stand still. It took my payroll officer about three hours to work out the red tape for my maternity pay and my husband's paternity leave. She now has to run a separate payroll for tips (I'm not joking - that is one of the chancellor's meanest impositions) to minimise the tax that my staff have to pay on the small amount of extra money they get (if we didn't run a tronc, they would have to pay NICs on tips too) - I would rather pay her a couple of extra hours work than pay employers NICs on tips. My business is a hotel in a rural area: a lot of my staff have to drive to work, because if there is a bus that goes anywhere near where they live, the last bus home leaves before our restaurant finishes serving of an evening, and before reception and the bar close. To add insult to injury, the local council has just increased the cost of parking around here by 300% (yes, that is not a typo). Sorry about the rant - you can probably tell that this is a subject that really winds me up. Just don't get me on to the subject of tax 'credits'!

You rant all you need, Roskva! While we're struggling under all this red tape, MP's don't even need to provide receipts for bills under £250. Can you imagine a commercial organisation having a rule like that? I'm sure they're really careful with our money!

I wonder if their allowances and expenses are taxed as benefits in kind? If not, I'll be

No wonder the government is corrupt. Our accountant hassled us for the receipt for £5.95 out of petty cash once... A local farmer who has diversified into growing flowers didn't actually bother with receipts until then.