Can Oily Dave say "No?"

[PigletJohn]

Will the PM guarantee that people will not be worse off as a result of the Tax Credit Cuts?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34660323

Apparently he cannot bring himself to tell the truth.

"Isitmebut Thu 29-Oct-15 13:20:27
... I have answered the question"

Can anybody see where?

It still looks like Isitme is saying that the true answer is "no," but hasn't told us why oily dave is incapable of saying so.

Piglet .... well you are clearly wrong as that is not what I have said.

Do you understand that in November there will be the usual Autumn Statement, and in addition, what should be the 3-years forward ALL government department Public Spending Round (review)?

There is no doubt that Tax Credits, where as a government with a fatter labour intensive £££ workforce, it takes ever higher taxes, and pays some back to the people as an employment subsidy, was a stupid 'sun shining on our money tree' idea, and likely to crash at the first recession.

So having HAD that great recession, getting rid of that cluster-fuck IS the objective of the Conservative government.

The problem was some of the goodies to compensate would come in after the cuts, which was a dumb idea.

So for Osborne/Cameron the objective will STILL be to wean the UK off Tax Credits, which also encourages/subsidises lower paid immigration and puts pressure on homes and services demand, BUT CUSHION the transition.

But whether that is done entirely, or in part, is up to Osborne GOING BACK to his soon to be announced 3-year plan, and playing with the figures to see what ELSE might be cut in order to balance our books by 2020 - with the OPTION of then paying down our still accumulating National debt.

In the real world, if a politician promises anything to do with £4.5 bil, they will be asked HOW it will be paid for, especially when running a deficit economy where IT IS ALREADY SPENT - and that will be what Osborne/Cameron would not have known was possible yesterday, based on whatever else needs to be cut to pay for it all(?) - and the priority of those affected by new cuts, as all 'low hanging fruit' e.g. the cutting back of a fat government, has gone.

"Isitmebut Thu 29-Oct-15 13:20:27
... I have answered the question"

"Isitmebut Thu 29-Oct-15 15:06:34
Piglet .... well you are clearly wrong as that is not what I have said."

So if you didn't say the answer was "no," do you mean you said it was "yes?"

Seriously does anybody read any of it?

Isitmebut - just think of all of the amazing things you could be doing in the time it takes you to c&p that lot.

Is isitmebut actually Oily Dave? they make as much sense.

Good tip on the scrolling. I've been avoiding news/politics threads but I think this solution is more constructive.

NashvilleQueen .... seriously, between those who have little idea (or occasional interest) what goes on, and those many more looking to deceive the readers of this board, I see any time spent on here as 'a calling' - especially as those that screwed up so badly, and those who want them back, clearly STILL either don't know, or want to know, what they DID wrong - which I find bat shit scary.

We had £trillions to spend on making fundamental changes to the Uk, and it was wasted, so now we have £1.6 tril of National debt and an annual £70 bil (ish) annual government overspend to fix it - and slowly 'stuff' will improve, but taking away the overspend punchbowl from a swinging several year debt/spending party is NEVER popular - here or anywhere else, but they all may try quick fix political chancers, but end up coming back to the slog/pain of national debt reduction.

you mean the punchbowl of tipping money over the banks and financial services industry?

I hope they're grateful to us humble taxpayers, public servants and benefits claimants for chipping in and helping them out.

Unfortunately that's a swinging party I never got invited to.

"you mean the punchbowl of tipping money over the banks and financial services industry?"

And they saw that I go off subject; the City has brought in shed loads of tax receipts to the UK financing global countries and companies for decades, but went on ‘tilt’ for all the reasons we have kicked around since – and don’t start me on that.

Its bringing in money again, £65 bil of direct taxes last year at least, and with exports (having halved) only bouncing back a few percent – we need something to help pay the bills/service our debt.

The 'party' I'd suggest you might have enjoyed is the around 50% rise in government spending from the approx annual £450 ish billion for a decade, to the near £700 bil from 2001 to 2008 as the financial crash took hold - funny old world mainly FINANCED by the tax receipts not just from the City, but high street/domestic banking - lending to anything with a pulse and sending asset prices soaring e.g. homeswith an average price of £73k in 1997, and £232k by Feb 2008.

Can anybody see where?

I refuse to even bother looking as I scroll past their posts every time. Can't be arsed to read them. It appears I'm not the only one.

"sending asset prices soaring e.g. homeswith an average price of £73k in 1997, and £232k by Feb 2008."

Ah, asset price inflation. What a terrible thing inflation is. It means that most young people cannot afford to buy a home unless they had the foresight to be born to prosperous parents who will die young. And thanks to Thatcher and criminals such as Porter, Britain's stock of social housing has largely been destroyed in order to coddle Conservative voters.

Still, if we squeeze three or four billion out of the poorer members of society, that will enable the govt to go easy on billionaire tax dodgers, reckless bankers, high earners, and anyone who can't dodge inheritance tax.

Though the original bank bail-out package was £500Billion.

So you've got to crush an awful lot of tax credits to refill that giant punchbowl. Still, the low-paid and struggling zero-hours and part-timers have only themselves to blame for throwing money around like confetti. What? It wasn't them? Wasn't Fred the Shred having his benefits cut because he had an extra bedroom?

PigletJohn ..... easy tiger, I'm hardly the one to justify any of the 2000s cluster-fuck, and the policies that got us there, but you are rattling off loads of inaccuracies that I could answer in full, but get told I go off thread.
On banks all I’ll say is that rescuing them was not an option based on the fragility of the global banking system (noting how it all got worse when U.S. Lehman Bros was allowed to fail around Sept 2008) and it was a few of OUR banks had to be part nationalised, no other countries did - and IF (note the big ‘if’) we get ALL the money back from the bank shares the UK government spend part nationalising them – the taxpayer cost at least will be negligible.

You are blaming Thatcher for the previous government’s abysmal home building record yet they had trillions to spend and an immigration policy on top of the 2004 EU one, and STILL failed to deliver any, which with deregulating UK banks/lending was WHY there was that housing boom - and unfortunately why Shelter reported in 2009 that 1.7 million families (5 million individuals) were in a queue for Social Homes needing a bedroom when there were over 800,000 social/council bedrooms not being used.

As for job growth, you can see below where a lot of the jobs/money went as all 100% tax funded (note the pre 2010 general election spike), which with their costs on top of the massive increase in Tax Credits and other ‘fixed costs’, is why the annual government overspend in 2010 was higher than most other countries.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3236690/Number-employed-state-falls-lowest-level-Second-World-War-pay-rises-fastes-rate-decade.html

And re jobs, and you mention the low paid and Temp Jobs, on a ‘glass half full’ basis, the UK has half the unemployment rate of the Eurozone and look at THEIR Temp employment situation.

Aug 2015; ”The New World of Work:recovery driven by rise in temp jobs”
www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b2171222-31e4-11e5-8873-775ba7c2ea3d.html

”They call it the “precariat”. In a continent known for strong employee protections, more than half of the eurozone’s young workers are in temporary jobs, churning from one shortlived contract to the next.”

”In France, permanent jobs account for just 16 per cent of new contracts, down from a quarter in 2000. In Spain, almost seven in 10 young workers are on temporary contracts. The share of the eurozone’s 15 to 24-year-old workers who are temps is the highest on record, at 52.4 per cent.”

“The rules for open-ended contracts in Europe are considered too stringent by employers and they sidestep those regulations by creating non-regular jobs,”

"Isitmebut Thu 29-Oct-15 13:20:27
... I have answered the question"

no you haven't

PigletJohn .... clearly my post above didn't suit; this board only looks for bad news/problems with a Conservative government, any good news in context, just HAS to come from Tory Head Office and so just HAS to have been 'spun'. Hmmm.

You say that I have not explained why Cameron was unable to give a detailed explanation within 24-hours - on a bit of policy legislation that passed in the Commons around 4-times before being presented to the Lords - on the Tax Credit Conservative alternative.

Well you clearly think that the Autumn Statement and 3-year forward entire government Public Spending Round (review) due in November IS on the back of a fag packet - and all Osborne/Cameron had to do is get a pencil stashed behind the formers ear, jiggle £4.5 billion of money across all hard pressed government department that have already been trimmed back over 6- years - and blurt the full details to hard of hearing Corbyn. Hmmm (again)

The policy IS to phase out Tax Credits, so Cameron could hardly have given a quick answer 'we'll keep them as they are' - and as I can't see how we will fail to hear EXACTLY what they are going to do about offsetting the pain of cutting them AT THE LATEST over the next MONTH - I guess Mr Corbyn might end up wasting a few more sessions asking the same question (x6), before the full dets are given.

I have not asked for "a detailed explanation." That is just in your imagination.

Refer to the top of the page.

It is poor taste for you to drag in an alleged partial disability, which is in any case irrelevant to Oily Dave refusing to answer.

"It is poor taste for you to drag in an alleged partial disability,"

What the feck are you talking about, you must be desperately lashing out, pathetic.

"I have not asked for "a detailed explanation." That is just in your imagination."

Well if Tax Credits are STILL going, finding new costed ways to take away the hardship is going to be detailed, init.

Well it's all very vexing.
Piglet how about the £612 million spent thus far on the debacle that is the 'universal credit'??
Now I would wager that if I made such a monumental fuck up in my job as IDS has in his, I would be on the, well, universal credit ( which are having to work out by hand as the IT system isn't fit for purpose)

"Isitmebut Thu 29-Oct-15 13:20:27
... I have answered the question"

no you haven't"

Quelle surprise!

'It is poor taste for you to drag in an alleged partial disability'

But no surprise, it's the usual spiel.

Hi Claig are you still a Russian spy?? According to 'they whom must not be named'

Isitmebut Fri 30-Oct-15 13:23:49
"It is poor taste for you to drag in an alleged partial disability,"
What the feck are you talking about, you must be desperately lashing out, pathetic.

Isitmebut Fri 30-Oct-15 12:38:00
the full details to hard of hearing Corbyn.

It is all very vexing, especially when reforms are well overdue and politicians say that department are soooo safe in their hands - but if ANY welfare reforms had been put in place over 13-years instead of just throwing money at it as the budget deficit rocketed - IDS could have just sat back in the ONE department 'fit for purpose' passed to the coalition and did feck all.

'Disastrous' £11.4bn NHS IT programme to be abandoned
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/8780566/Disastrous-11.4bn-NHS-IT-programme-to-be-abandoned.html

”A multi-billion pound IT project started by Labour to link all parts of the NHS is to be abandoned.”

PigletJohn ...... wots with all the time stamps, were you ever a police person taking statements by any chance?

hard of hearing Corbyn.

If someone asks a question 6-times I'm assuming he was either hard of hearing or a duffus, and I giving the benefit of the doubt.

The fact you say "alleged" means that you don't know; they are trying to 'fit me up', m'lud.

'Hi Claig are you still a Russian spy?? According to 'they whom must not be named''

Never was, but that doesn't break through the fantasy land and ultra thick concrete-like cranium of Isitanut, the Tory mole that even Tory Central Office wish would bat for Corbyn instead of ruining their prospects with thinking members of the public.

'If someone asks a question 6-times I'm assuming he was either hard of hearing or a duffus'

Or maybe he never got a straight talking honest answer