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Original poster

No legal aid = baby adopted

943 replies

CFSKate · 09/10/2015 07:54

I saw this on Channel 4 News yesterday, I only saw it part way through, but it went something like this, there was a couple who were accused of abusing their child, they couldn't get legal aid, the court had the child adopted, and then it went to court again and new evidence said there was a medical condition and the parents weren't guilty of abuse, but the adoption is final, they can't get their baby back.

OP posts:
NewLife4Me · 09/10/2015 17:35

Russian

I know what you are saying, but please believe me the phrase hurts adoptive people as well as their parents. it upsets me greatly as it minimises the up bringing I received.
I can see why the adoptive parents would be hurt by this. Thanks
People used to ask me if I ever wanted to find my real mum? Shock It was the first question when I told them I was adopted, then it moved to natural mum.

RussianTea · 09/10/2015 17:35

Within adoption being the operative clause FuckedOff.

RussianTea · 09/10/2015 17:37

It would help if we knew how all four parents would like to be referred to, of course.

F0rmerlyKnownAsXenia · 09/10/2015 17:37

Yeah, big choc frenzy. You are clearly thinking of adoption in another century, when parents told their child " the truth " when they were 10 or 12

FuckedOffMum · 09/10/2015 17:37

*refering to birth mothers as natural mothers.....

Trying to type whilst keeping an eye on my unnatural child, sorry.

WhoTheFuckIsSimon · 09/10/2015 17:37

There was a similar case in America and in that case the 8yo child was removed from the adoptive parents and returned to the birth father. Will try and find a link.

StormyBlue · 09/10/2015 17:38

Just RTFT. I don't think any of the more serious posts have dismissed the disruption and upset to the 3 year old if he were to be moved. They just believe that the long term upset in adolescence and adulthood is likely to be worse, which the now-grown up adopted children on this thread have agreed with. I don't think it's right to dismiss their perspectives while claiming to be thinking in their best interests.

FuckedOffMum · 09/10/2015 17:39

Yes, Russian, within adoption, funnily enough something we're discussing. A child who has been adopted, his adoptive parents and his biological/birth parents.

Strange that I, and several others, would want to use the correct terminology isn't it? Hmm

RussianTea · 09/10/2015 17:41

No FuckedOff. We're discussing a specific (and thankfully very rare) case of WRONGFUL adoption.

The difference between adoption generally and wrongful adoption is the very point of the thread.

WhoTheFuckIsSimon · 09/10/2015 17:41

A friend of mine is currently at risk of SS removing her kids. She has full legal aid and also an independent social worker. Afaik it's all non means tested and she said provided to all child protection cases where the child's future is being decided.

Lurkedforever1 · 09/10/2015 17:41

jane think what you're saying. Your adoptive child is yours, I agree. But what if I decide you're not a fit parent and take him/her into care. Your evidence is ignored and I give your child to mrs smith and let her adopt your child. Several years later your evidence over turns my cruelty accusations. Would you be saying oh well, mrs smith had my child longer so I'll take the compo and adopt another one? Or do you think even if you didn't see that child for 20years he/she would be as loved and wanted as they are now?

F0rmerlyKnownAsXenia · 09/10/2015 17:42

No strormy, none of the adoptees on this thread have said that the child's adolescence will be worse if he is not moved again . Not one of them .

You clearly know nothing about the permanent damage such moves can do to children .

RussianTea · 09/10/2015 17:44

A friend of mine is currently at risk of SS removing her kids. She has full legal aid and also an independent social worker. Afaik it's all non means tested and she said provided to all child protection cases where the child's future is being decided.

babybarrister explained upthread that there is LA for parents in care proceedings but NOT to defend adoption proceedings. It's a strange decision.

UnlikelyPilgramage · 09/10/2015 17:47

I am in agreement with Russian and others.

The case is very sad. Wrongs have been done to innocent parties. The adoptive parents are victims too.

The child needs to go and live with his birth parents.

Lamination · 09/10/2015 17:48

Big choc, I wouldn't presume any of this will be a secret to be discovered. The vast majority of adoptees are now brought up with their history described in language and ways appropriate to their need for understanding. We have no idea how the parents of this baby will be dealing with contact with birth parents and what support SS are giving them but even if there are no plans for contact and little support from SS then their preparation for adoption will be helping them look at how to share the changing circumstances with the child.

The situation is awful but one that has happened because of the system.

RussianTea · 09/10/2015 17:48

NewLife of course 'birth parent' is the correct term in all rightful adoptions Flowers

I'm just trying to show some sensitivity to the fact that this adoption should never have happened and to imagine how the parents feel about being labelled 'BM and BF' on top of the injustice.

Lemonfizzypop · 09/10/2015 17:48

If my adoptive parents had told me they hadn't handed me over to my biological parents in this situation I would have hated them and gone nc when I was able.I'm sorry but I feel really strongly about this. My bm didn't even want to look at me let alone have anything to do with me, my adoptive parents were brilliant, lovely people. I'm sure in this case the adoptive parents are lovely, but there are parents who should still be parenting that child who have been denied that opportunity. I hadn't heard of this story until this thread and hope all the professionals in the case who declared under no doubt are/have been sacked but I doubt it.

Erm.

Devora · 09/10/2015 17:48

I don't suppose many non-adopters know how much emphasis there is in modern adoption on what is called 'life story work' - helping your child understand and work through their feelings about their history, why they came to be adopted and their relationship to their birth family. The emphasis is on openness and it is a lifetime conversation: I was told off by the social worker because we hadn't started yet when my child was 18 months old.

I spend a lot - a LOT - of time talking with my child about her birth family. We look at photos, we discuss why she can't see them, why she can't be with them. It's heartbreaking stuff. I often feel overwhelmed by the challenge of helping her to resolve her very painful feelings - in fact I'm doing more training on this soon, as it takes a high level of skill to do well. My child cries for her birth mother, despite never having met her. It is a huge and continuing source of grief for her, and I never underestimate that. But she is also fiercely bonded to me - I am her security - at 6 years old she will not sleep alone, or be left at parties, or go to the bathroom without me. She needs an enormous amount of therapeutic input and will do so for a long time to come. I really don't know whether she could cope with the trauma of another transition, though I also know she badly wants to know her birth family.

I'm sharing this because I think it is hugely unlikely that the adoptive parents have not thought through everything that is said on this thread. And more. So many people seem to think it's as simple as, "If they love her they'll hand her back. End of." In reality it is way more complex. Would I just hand my child back? Of course not. Would I just carry on as before? Of course not. If this was happening to me, I would be consulting every expert in the world on how this could be taken forward in the best interests of my child. And it is not just up to the adoptive parents to do that: the birth parents, too, will have to understand they can't just turn back the clock. Both sets of parents will have to work together, very patiently, to make this work for the child. And that will be horrendous, but still the right thing to do.

PLEASE stop asserting that there is an obvious and simple solution, everybody. There is something simple about this at all.

RussianTea · 09/10/2015 17:52

PLEASE stop asserting that there is an obvious and simple solution, everybody

Devora 'everybody' is not asserting that.

JaneDonne · 09/10/2015 17:52

Bobochic I can see why that sounds right but attachment theory will tell you another move for this child from his/her secure home would be a terrible idea.

Lemonfizzypop · 09/10/2015 17:53

I completely agree devora, however some posters seem to think there is no need to even consider placing the child back with their birth parents "just because the mum squeezed the child out of her fanjo".

BoboChic · 09/10/2015 17:54

I really don't agree, Jane. This child is not going to have another move - he is going to return to where he comes from.

UnlikelyPilgramage · 09/10/2015 17:55

Devora, I absolutely respect your post and your good self :) but I have to ask myself if 'sharing' the child is in any way the best option for anybody, and truthfully I don't think that it is.

As such, given the likelihood of the child wanting to seek his birth parents upon adolescence, going to live with them does seem the kindest thing all round (I recognise it will still be unbearably painful for all.)

RussianTea · 09/10/2015 17:55

You make a good point about the life story work. Even that must require some pretty specialised psychologist expertise now?