The Taxpayers Alliance are a bunch of wankers aren't they?

[Alfieisnoisy]

Here's one of their number on the subject of the Winter Fuel Allowance. The Government shouldn't be afraid of making difficult cuts because...

Many of those hit by a cut to the winter fuel allowance might "not be around" at the next election, said Alex Wild of the Taxpayers' Alliance.

He then compounded it by adding that even if "they" were around they wouldn't remember.

Callousness and ageism all at once.

Nice one Alex

They also look at the 'big picture' and here is an example where their predictions can be off;

Sept 2009: Gordon Brown 'wasted £3 trillion'

Gordon Brown has cost taxpayers £3 trillion by mishandling the economy during his time as Chancellor and Prime Minister, a book claims.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/6186845/Gordon-Brown-wasted-3-trillion.html

”Around £1.5 trillion of taxpayers' money has been squandered on an acceleration in Government spending fuelled by the economic boom, while another £1.5 trillion has evaporated in measures to tackle the recession, according to the research.”

”The authors claim that Government spending has more than doubled in real terms since 1997, to the extent that even if the next government tries to trim spending by 5-10 per cent, it will take years, probably even decades, to bring it back under control, and could cost upwards of a further £1 trillion.”

”Mr Brown has taken public spending to the level reached by Harold Wilson and James Callaghan in 1976 - when the country went bankrupt and needed the IMF to bail it out, they say.”

Clearly in late 2009 the TPA authors did not know WHICH party would be in government in May 2010, but with resolve, cleaning up this annual budget deficit/overspending mess should only take ONE decade - as Labour's Darling mentioned without giving any details how they'd do it, other than 'cut less, tax more' than the other parties.

Don't think the OP said anything about labour

Just what twats the TPA are.

Yes Alfieisnoisy bloody disgusting comments.

Yep nothing about any political party.

What was said about elderly people was bloody appalling.

Yes, they are. Horrible self-centered bunch of idiots.

I agree its an appauling to thing to say about elderly people. However I don't think that free TV licences, winter fuel allowances and free pensions can be justified for wealthy pensioners. However all these things are worth a substantial money and maybe the tax system needs to claim back some of the money these things cost from wealthy pensioners.

Incidently wealthy pensioners tend to live longer and be mentally more alert than poor pensioners. They will certainly remember and thats why the Tories have not pissed them off. However I can't see such people voting for Jermany Corbyn either so maybe cuts to wealthy pensioner benefits is possible.

I read that as well this morning and thought what a bunch of idiots. I wish them all a happy retirement and hope they don't suffer from the cold. How much money do they get paid to come out with things like that ?

I accept that difficult decisions may have to be made. However encouraging the Govt to do so on the grounds of "well loads of them will be dead by the next election" and "if they're not dead they won't remember" is dreadful.

TPA are a Tory lobby group so their views largely mirror those of the Conservative Party.

Best avoided at all costs IMO :)

Shocking statements. Apparently, Alex Wild is Head of Research. Surely he should now step down.

Old people die. It's hardly news.

The TPA are wankers. Which is also not news.

Do two non stories make a story ?

'Do two non stories make a story ?'

It's nota non-story because the Taxpayer Alliance are sometimes accused of being a Tory pressure group set up by libertarian Tories in order to push for a small state agenda, and statements like that could undermine their support and credibility among the public by revealing the nasty views and calculating logic behind some of their team. Politics is about image to a large extent and the public don't like to see masks slip and nastiness revealed.

The Taxpayers Alliance formed in 2004 is always accused of being a pressure group, because they are one, trying to hold government to account for the way taxpayers money is spent.

Why was it formed, probably because the Tory Party from 1997 had been decimated, going from leader to leader, and not properly holding the government of the day to account - as the first several years of a Labour government kept raising taxes mentioned below.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-389284/The-80-tax-rises-Labour.html

Hardly some political underground movement, and as LONG as they continue to represent all taxpayers and hold all governments to account, long may they continue.

Now I have not read the full article mentioned in the OP, but the cynicism shown above could be directed at the Conservatives, attacking a soft aged target - is that now a sackable offence? Good. lol

It seems that the Taxpayers Alliance was formed by Tories as a pressure group against the Tory moderniserrs who had taken over the Party and who had ditched Thatcherite taxcutting Tory traditions in favour of their New Labour style modernising, progressive rebranding to ditch what modernisers called the Tories "nasty party" image.

"The TPA was founded in 2004 by "a group of "libertarian" Conservatives, frustrated by what they saw as the party's decision to ditch its traditional tax cutting message."[5] At the time the Conservative Party felt the need to match the Labour Party's spending plans, and the TPA aimed to represent, in the words of founder and Chief Executive Matthew Elliott, those "who want to have lower taxes and lower spending".[5] The attraction for donors, many associated with the Conservatives, is the ability of the TPA "to "fly kites" for policy ideas that may go on to be adopted as Conservative policy.""

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TaxPayers%27_Alliance

The FACT the Taxpayers Alliance was formed 7-years after the Conservatives left office, we'll never know if the founders of the TPA were right in their assessment that the decimated and virtually rudderless Conservatives had changed a Conservative their small state, low tax, CORE policies from the 1970's - but judging by the Conservative state-as-big-as-it-needs-to-be and low tax record from 2010, that TPA founders assessment, was wrong.

All they had to do was wait and look at the Conservative 2005 General Election manifesto, six main policies.
www.politicsresources.net/area/uk/ge05/man/manifesto-uk-2005.pdf

Maybe they had heard Lower Taxes was going to be #3, maybe the Tories should have made it #1 - and if 80 new Labour Taxes were OK with them, not bother with the TPA.

"Embarrassment for 'tax-cutter' Cameron after it's revealed Coalition has raised our taxes by £255 each

Prime Minister David Cameron has claimed to be a 'tax cutting' politician
Reputation under fire after the revelation by the Institute for Fiscal Studies
It discovered tax rises totalled £64.3billion - including £14billion VAT hike
Millions are paying 40p tax for first time and inheritance tax increased too"

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2994282/Embarrassment-tax-cutter-Cameron-s-revealed-Coalition-raised-taxes-255-each.html

The Taxpayers Alliance was most probably formed by Conservatives who wanted to hold the modernisers' feet to the fire before they did any more modernising moves and distanced themselves further from traditional Tory values.

However, this Head of Research and his comments risk undermining the good work that they do in keeping Cameron's modernising feet to the fire and keeping Cameron on the straight and narrow by revealing a nasty side to their thinking.

claig .... in 1979 when the Conservatives inherited horrendous taxes across our economy, they began to fall, but not always in a straight line, as we had other factors along the way e.g. a 1991 European recession, but always as a 'direction of travel' lower, so if you compare 1979 to 1997 tax rates it would blow your Soviet socks off.

As to your link, not only is it a bit vague taking an overall increase of taxes on the whole economy when reducing a deficit, I'd suggest that while obviously searching for a headline, using a March 2015 article when there has been I believe a UK Budget and Autumn Statement since then, it won't be up to date.

Having said that the IFS says that this recent Tax Credit policy will make the poor worse off, it seems to be unclear to me if the figures include ALL the tax cuts since 2010 e.g. the lifting of the personal allowance from over 6k to around £11k, and how it will look when the Minimum wage goes up.

The alternative to a 2010 Conservative administration was a 4th term of Labour who stated that they would cut LESS of the deficit, and tax MORE as the 'taster' below showed;

(2010) “Labour’s plans to increase national insurance next year will cost jobs, Alistair Darling has said.”
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/7539343/Labours-planned-National-Insurance-increase-will-cost-jobs-Alistair-Darling-admits.html

But of course when Labour keeps dumping taxes on the poor, like Council Tax up 105% on average in England on a Band D property over 13-years mostly through a tax receipt boom, its always done with love.

claig .. you really needs to stop fixating on a buzz word and try to build a case around it, as trying to show Cameron/Osborne as non real Tory 'modernizers', will lead you to a hiding to nothing.

As on the fat state/weak business structural Road to Greece, the UK economy needed rebalancing, and Pay needed rebalancing from HIGH Taxes, HIGH credits, LOW pay, to the opposite - and going through a much needed transition which could be useful whether the global economy tanks again or not.

There is no doubt that the core Conservative tax/spend model is being implemented, after all, if there was any doubt that it is the least sustainable type of economy, the last 13-years of Labour proved the state cannot be bigger than the economy £££ supporting it.

Although they are not wrong are they and I am sure most mumsnetters think people like I am with a high income should not be getting winter fuel allowances and free bus passes.

'as trying to show Cameron/Osborne as non real Tory 'modernizers', will lead you to a hiding to nothing.'

Here is David Davis and some othe real Tories commenting on Mr Moderniser "we need more modernisation" Cameron

"Get serious, Dave... only lower taxes will win the Election
...
To put it at its kindest, the project to ‘modernise’ the party failed to deliver electoral success. At the same time, party membership collapsed from around 500,000 in 1992, to about 100,000 in 2010
...
Essentially, the modernisers absorbed the view of London’s metropolitan elite, which confuses social conservatism with bigotry, patriotism with xenophobia, or even racism, and equates an admiration for wealth creation with disdain for the poor and even carelessness about the future of the planet. Nonsensical views, but remarkably common in the upper reaches of parts of London society.

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2772283/The-threat-UKIP-no-longer-laughing-matter-Get-Dave-lower-taxes-win-Election-writes-DAVID-DAVIS.html

Heffer: Cameron is 'not a conviction Conservative'

Writing in his new megablog RightMinds, Simon Heffer articulates succinctly what many of us already know"

archbishop-cranmer.blogspot.co.uk/2011/10/heffer-cameron-is-not-conviction.html

“Today I want to speak directly to the people who have idealism and progressive ideals hardwired into their DNA…” Oh dear. Who said that? No contest – it has to have been Tony Blair, he of the “irreducible core”. Wrong: it was the Heir of Blair, soaring into fresh flights of meretricious Daveguff at his press conference this morning. Behind the pretentious technobabble"

blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/geraldwarner/100036504/dave-and-his-vichy-tories-will-sell-out-the-conservative-party-to-liberal-demands-for-pr-voting/

Grazia1984, you probably don't use the bus and even if you did occasionally, the cost is peanuts and ensures that all the old-age pensioners like my nan could use the bus to do her shopping rather than have to take the money out of her small pension.

The Jon Snows and the metropolitan elite are on our TVs all the time shouting at young people and saying "do you think it's fair that I get a free bus pass?" when we know that Snow and the modernisers use bikes, but when it will also mean that all the pensioners who aren't fit enough to use bikes and who don't earn what the metropolitan elite earn won't get a free bus pass either if the metropolitan elite have their way.

'The Government shouldn't be afraid of making difficult cuts because...

Many of those hit by a cut to the winter fuel allowance might "not be around" at the next election, said Alex Wild of the Taxpayers' Alliance'

What an insult! What about cutting tax perks of charidees with self-referring "clients", what about cutting taxpayer grants to these charidees, what about cutting the cost of funding two full-time civil servants to help these charidees out instead of going after old people because "they may bot be around"?

How does Jon Snow do his shopping? Has he got a car? I bet he has. But lots of pensioners can't afford cars and need buses to do their shopping.

The CORE Conservative policies on the size of the State, low personal taxes, EU sceptic etc are the same as before 1997, and I'll say again, taxes have not fallen in a straight line and cannot in a responsible government as different 'stuff' happens during an administration - unless Labour, when everything has failed, who just sat there like a rabbit in headlight.

Of course other policies get bolted onto those CORE policies that some within the party may disagree with, but as a direction of travel with taxes it will be as low as possible depending on the economy/debt - but even then needing to be finely balanced to keep the economy going/deficit falling.

Many of the bolted on policies are not only similar to Labour's, there was a blatant theft, but that is the Cameron/Osborne stamp on the party, and if members don't like it, thats up to them, there are 64 million people in the UK.

Claig ... before you start on pensions, look at Labour's last 13-year record; derisory annual State rises, a raid on private pensions killing Final Salary schemes - as taxes rose e.g. Council tax up 105% on average in England.

Now look at the Conservative 'Triple Lock' policy.

The one thing we can all agree on is that the Tories have pandered to the grey vote like nobody's business because the old vote.

Yes, the Tories were better on pensions and it is right that they start providing better policies for old people who are usually ignored by this young clique of SPADs, teenage whizzkids and modernisers.

The Tories have got UKIP on their tails and now Corbyn who may yet revolutionise care for the elderly if the Establishment Tory-lites within his own party don't finish him off first, which will mean that both UKIP and Corbyn will hold Cameron's modernising feet to the fire and keep the moderniser on the straight and narrow and that the Taxpayers Alliance will have to tone it down or the Tories will lose the election.