The end of one law for all in the UK?

[Uwila]

YIKES!!!

But, surely this a case of journalist hype. Or do you think we could live under more than one set of laws. Personally I would be adomantly opposed to this possibility.

multiple legal systems, including sharia

No, I think it's dangerous and crazy and unworkable.

And it makes me want to say things I shouldn't say.

Phew... at least I'm not alone then. I find it downright scary.

so they are not talking about replacing the current laws just that there are cultural laws that run cocurrently , in the case of the somalis, i can see how in minority population ,it could work.Not being jewish or muslim i dont really see how this might effect me. I wonder if non jews or muslims are allowed to approach these courts if they feel they have a greivance against a jew or muslim or somali?

Yes, but just look at what happens in places like Pakistan where there are separate religious and secular courts. Do you want to end up like that lad aquitted under the secular system, but conviceted under sharia law of murder and sentnced to death? And look at what is happening when the govt is trying to ensure all rape cases ae tried under secular courts where at least the women have a fighting chance. The elders are walking out and refusing to agree to a law that prevents women from needing 4 witnesses to rape and protects her from being convicted of adultery if the rape trial fails.

I think it's a first step in what is definitely the wrong direction. There are people out there who think they live by some other set of rules, and this is definitely bad for society. I suppose if it is only civil cases and all parties agree to it then it not terrible, but where does it go next?

Sahria law scares the crap out of me. I know nothing about the others metioned. They may or may not be as bad. I am opposed to any set of rules that does not apply equally to men and woman, and I frankly don't give a toss what your interpretation holy book and it's associated cultural traditions say.

You can't go to another country and take your home country's laws with you fgs, the mind boggles as to what sentences might be meted out!

It's like a Star Chamber!

In NZ thre was a lot of pressure to allow the Marae (maori elders and civilian population) to discipline some criminals, certainly in NZ the normal justice system was not working, not in the deterrant sense anyway
I am not sure but I think there was some movement on this, for the courts and maraes working together.
However one has to bear in mind, these are the NZ indigenous people after all.

what's a first step though?

that article is just a what if? isn't it, or did I miss something? ludicrous idea though. one of many ludicrous ideas related to multiculturalism in the press lately. If I wasn't a sensible type I'd suspect a right wing conspiracy.

So its sort of happening already? I dont see a problem, however, if current/existing english law begins to be superseded, it could then become the thin edge of a very dangerous wedge.

This doesn't sound like a hypothetical situation to me.

"Islamic and Jewish law remains confined to civil matters. But the BBC's Law in Action programme has learned that the Somali court hears criminal cases too.

One of the most serious cases it has dealt with was the "trial" of a group of young men accused of stabbing a fellow Somali. "

By "first step" I mean if this is accepted, then perhaps in a year or two these courts will want to start hear criminal cases, and if they gain more support perhaps they will challenge whether the UK court actually have superiority. I think we need to have one single set of laws that apply to the whole nation regardless of sex, race, religeon.

Surely that's a step away from cohesion rather than a step towards it. What were they thinking?!

(oh bloody hell that was supposed to be a not a - MSN has a lot to answer for, I tell you)

Depressing and wrong, but inevitable imo. This makes absolute sense in the context of multi-culturalism.

Why, Caligula? Why should any country bring in the laws of other lands/cultures? All of these groups should take an active role the government and laws that already exist and not go set up their own little (fictitious) worlds within ours.

And who is going to govern whom? What if a Muslim man in a muslim community goes over to steal from a jewish man in a Jewish community, then whose jurisdiction are they in?

from wht i know of isllm, you have to accept the laws of a country you live in. so if the national laws say you can only be married to one person at a time, then tht is what you have to live by.
and from what i know of sharia law, rape and adultery are very different. rape can be proved by medical evidence. adultery reqquires four witnesses to prevent unfair charges as the sentence if proved is death. i have no idea how the courts in pakistan get away with treating the two as the same.
i really really hope this country doesnt go down the route of a mess of the legal system there is in pakistan.

The rules of each religion/culture apply only to those from that culture I suspect, so the perpetrators would be dealt with by their own court.
I think in some of the cases outlined such as divorce and other civil matters where the Crown have no prosecution prerogative, it can work well.
Not so sure about more serious crimes - I think the laws of the nation have to prevail.

But, Stitch, rape can't always be proved by medical evidence. We know that even in UK culture/courts rape is very difficult to prove.

And requiring 4 witnesses does not protect the innocent. It protects the guilty because there will never be four witnesses. And don't they all have to be men?

sorry, I read that report too quickly.

But it's not really one law for one and another for another is it? because the criminals would have been tried in normal courts too if they'd been reported to the police. and if these courts tried to impose any punishment other than fines they would be in trouble, so i don't see the problem really.

PS you don't need 4 witnesses to prove adultery in islam if the one being tried is a woman.

uwila, adultery by definition happens with consent. and the sentence for it is death. so unless this consensual actu happens in front of four male witnesses, oor 8 female witnesses, then guilt cannot be confirmed, so the sentence cqannot be passed.
rape, especially vviolent rape can be confirmed by medical evidence,
must go take care of sick child, will continue later

is that the Sharia law that has changed in Pakistan recently?
Where a woman trying to prove rape had to have 4 MALE witnesses in order to prove her case.
Diabolical

Uwila I agree, but that hasn't been the thrust of multi-culturalism. MC has always been about encouraging large groups of ethnic minorities to pursue their own way of doing things apart from the mainstream. (EG making sure leaflets were printed in different languages, thus re-inforcing and legitimising separateness, rather than ensuring that good, affordable English classes were available and having an expectation that people living here should eventually be able to speak the language to a reasonable level.) Having different laws is just a logical extension of all the cultural and social apartheid that's been going on in the name of multi-culturalism, imo.

I see your point Caligula. And I do think people should be allowed to have their own cultures and communities. I don't want a big melting pt where everyone is supposed to melt into a single combined culture. But, I draw the line at the law. These cultures should co-exist so long as they fall within the law of the land. No exceptions.

That's only one definition of multi-culturalism though. I don't think it's the one used by the majority. There are lots of things that would be permitted in a true multicultural society (by your definition) that are not permitted in the UK, and there have been several moves over the last couple of years to strengthen that position (eg by cracking down on forced marriages).

Multiculturalism is one thing, laws are another... You can't have one set for one person and another set for another - you'll end up with his and hers laws before long.

So the stabbing guys agreed compensation? What if they had agreed decapitation? Yes, they would then have been punishable by UK law, but that wouldn't bring back the headless guy.

No. A society needs one set of laws for everyone. Possibly tweaking a few of the standard laws to be less Christian might be good (thinking marriage here...), but not seperate stuff dependent on your culture of choice.