Please don't shout at me, can someone explain the situation in calais

[StealthPolarBear]

I've been on holiday and not keeping up with the news. BBC has stuff but has moved on from the basics and u can't seem to find a simple explanation.
Are these people mainly from somalia/Eritrea? Why has this all come to a head now, what is different from 3 months ago? And how does operation stack fit in?
I know there are lots of threads about the rights and wrongs, but I need to start at the basic facts. Thank you

I find the whole thing very worrying. There will be people who genuinely need our help but there's a whole lot of them breaking their way into the UK that we know nothing about. How many are extremists or who will become extremists when they find that the streets aren't paved with gold. What is their attitude towards UK women?

I think I might go down to kings x today and start cutting through fences I wonder how long before I'm arrested. Not long i bet.

Is It Time for Some Facts About Those Migrants?

Perhaps you'll think I'm naïve, but I still believe that when you have a debate, it's a good idea to have some facts readily to hand.

So here are some facts that you might find useful next time you're thinking about that "swarm" (David Cameron's word, not mine) of migrants crossing the Mediterranean from north Africa. Why not keep them handy (the facts, not the migrants) on your smartphone, or print them out and shove them in a pocket.

Q.1: Why do they all want to come to the UK?

A: They don't. Far more migrants head for Germany and Sweden, which dealt with nearly half of all asylum applications into the EU last year. The ones at Calais are a tiny fraction of the overall number, probably no more than 3,000 out of a total of well over 175,000 who have entered the EU so far this year.

Q.2: So why are the numbers higher than ever?

A: They're not - according to the EU's own figures, there were 672,000 EU asylum applications in 1992 (when there were only 15 members of the EU), compared to 626,000 last year (when the EU had grown to 28 members with a total population of 500 million). It is true, however, that numbers had dropped substantially in the interim. (Click here for the detailed figures.)

Q.3: How many actually apply for asylum in the UK?

A: According to the latest government statistics: "There were 25,020 asylum applications in the year ending March 2015, an increase of 5% compared with the previous year (23,803). The number of applications remains low relative to the peak number of applications in 2002 (84,132)."

Q.4: Why aren't the migrants just sent back to where they came from if they're not genuine asylum-seekers?

A: Because often we have no way of telling where they came from. Many have no documents, either because they have destroyed them, or because they have been handed over to traffickers who have disappeared.

Q.5: But they can't all be from Syria, can they?

A: No, but about a fifth of the total are. The other main known countries of origin are Afghanistan, Kosovo and Eritrea. The biggest increase in asylum applications last year was from Ukrainians.

Q.6: Why don't Syria's neighbours look after Syrian refugees?

A: They do. According to the UN, there are more than two million registered refugees in Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt and Iraq, and another 1.7million in Turkey.

Q.7: If some of the migrants who enter the EU are genuine refugees, why don't they apply for asylum in the first country they get to?

A: Huge numbers do exactly that: the number of applications more than doubled last year in both Italy (the main entry point for migrants who have made it across the Mediterranean) and Hungary (entry point for mainly Asian migrants who originally entered the EU from Turkey).

Q.8: So who are the ones in Calais?

A: A huge mix of nationalities, most of whom have a particular reason for wanting to get to the UK: they may have relatives or friends who are already here, they may be English-speakers who believe they're more likely to find work here, or they may have heard that there's already a substantial number of others from their home country who have already settled here.

Q.9: Isn' t the real reason that they know they'll get benefits as soon as they make it across the Channel?

A: No. According to the independent fact-checking organisation Full Fact, most citizens of non-EU countries who come to live in the UK have no recourse to public funds in the initial years after they arrive, nor are asylum-seekers eligible for welfare benefits while their claims are pending.

Q.10: So why are the media making such a huge fuss about the migrants in Calais?

A: Good question. Partly because they're easy to find and easy to get to - and those long lines of stranded lorries make great TV pictures. So do the desperate images of desperate people risking their lives as they try to leap onto trucks or trains as they head for the Channel Tunnel. And also, of course, because the story feeds into the current debate about the UK's membership of the EU and overall immigration policy. (Plus parliament is on holiday and we're all bored to tears with the Labour leadership contest.)

Do I have the answer to the global migration crisis? No, but here are some suggestions that might help: set up proper, EU-run processing centres at the main entry points: southern Italy, Greece, Hungary. Genuine refugees should be offered asylum according to an agreed quota calculated according to population and GDP. Those deemed non-eligible for asylum would be offered a choice: wait in a camp until your number comes up, and then go where you're sent -- or go home.

The tragedy is that so many people are so desperate that they're prepared to die in an attempt to find a safe place to live. And our response is so blinkered that all we can think of is building higher fences.

[http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/robin-lustig/calais-migrants-refugees_b_7909630.html]]

The UK take less asylum seekers than many other countries, particularly Germany and Sweden.

All this 'they all want to come to Britain' is a Daily Mail headline, not a fact.

Excellent posts Black and Rocky

Unfortunately facts have been overtaken by rhetoric. The constant bombardment of right wing media of immigrants coming in hordes to take our jobs have tied the government's hands. No-one dares to examine the facts and make sensible humane choices.

I'm not suggesting this is the right answer but let's for a minute say we take ALL the migrants currently trying to get into the UK in Calais. We're talking about absorbing about 3000 people into a population of 60 million. It's nothing really.

The main issue I have against that plan is the fact it would encourage more to try. And therein lies the problem. How do you protect genuine refugees without encouraging more and more economic migrants to come? I wouldn't mind for one minute a one off 3000 increase. But we obviously can't keep doing it every few weeks.

If anyone has a great answer then I'm sure Cameron would love to hear it

encourages more and if they have no documentation you literally have no way of knowing who you are letting in. some of these people are coming from places where rape has been used as a weapon of war or have many citizens have been caught up into violence and war crimes of other kinds.

there's literally no way to know, if they have destroyed their ID, who these people are and we do actually have a duty of care to our own citizens too and especially our children and the likes of an earlier poster's sister. someone said flippantly that it's not like we don't have uk criminals/rapists BUT these were people with records of previous offences - had they been uk citizens those previous records would be known - with people you have no way of verifying the pasts of arriving in society that's a safety net you do not have and yes, there are victims due to that.

i also think it is fair for someone to point out that if they as a uk or french citizen were vandalising property and disrupting rail services or committing crimes like this they would be instantly arrested and secured. the fact the french aren't doing this and aren't detaining people in their country illegally without papers is a nightmare really. if people knew what awaited them was arrest and detainment if they acted illegally they would likely be deterred as it is numbers will increase because there are no consequences so why not have a go.

the EU is facing and will further face real pressure on it's unity as nations evade their responsibilities (not processing people, not ascertaining identity before allowing people to travel onwards, not arresting illegal immigrants so long as they're moving on/trying to move on etc) and the bills aren't shared (re: imagine what toll this is taking on italy).

you can have concern and empathy for the plight of migrants whilst still also recognising the very real concerns of what this means for europeans in their home countries too.

out of curiousity are migrants who arrive without ID able to work with children or vulnerable adults? clearly there is no way to be able to do a background check.

Of course not Badger. Jobs like that are dependent on dbs checks. If you can't provide one you can't get the job. People coming from abroad are expected to bring something similar from their country in my experience.
I find it tricky when people are wary of economic immigrants given how many Brits go to other countries for economic 699mic reasons too.

If you were one of the would-be immigrants currently living under tarpaulin at Calais, what would you do next?
options.

1. Give up and go home. (Very, very unlikely!)

1. Try to make a home close to where you are in France or in Belgium or Luxembourg - all in the Schengen area so you could just walk there.

1. Keep trying to cross at Calais which must be tempting as England is so close, but its increasingly well fortified.

1. Walk to Dunkirk and try stowing away on a UK bound lorry there?

1. If possible try a more radical alternative route. Is it possible to get to Zeebrugge or somehow come in through Eire? There's no border controls between Eire and N. Ireland and obviously no checks on the ferries between Belfast and Larne.

Does anyone know how these people managed to feed themselves from the day they left home until today?

As someone else said, the Uk could easily absorb 3000 people, but to just let them in would be "pour encourager les autres" which Britain cannot afford to do.

I suspect that many only want to come to the Uk anyway because our language is English which is the language most people learn as a second language. Or because they have friends or relatives already in the Uk, who themslves chose to come here because they spoke a little English.

to be honest i would have applied at the first country i came to whilst i still had some funds to survive (presumably they've lived on something from italy to calais and now). if i had children - even more so - i would not put them through further trauma of illegal travel and rough sleeping.

you've made it to safety if your purpose was to get to safety. people can empathise with that and understand however once you start illegally smuggling across europe trying to get to one particular place you fancy for social and economic reasons (wherever that is), let alone spending funds that could set you up in life to do that, then you lose a great deal of empathy because you're no longer fleeing for your life etc and have just become a deliberate criminal for lifestyle choices.

once people start breaking the law in europe they should be treated like any other criminal. if you arrived in italy or greece fleeing a dangerous country then you are an assylum seeker and can follow due process (and of course the rest of europe needs strategy to support and work with that process) just as many have. if in fact your just someone trying to illegally get to france, spain, wherever you fancy living then you shouldn't be muddled with assylum seekers and you have chosen to act criminally and should be met with consequences for that otherwise of course there is no deterrent for breaking laws and the laws cease to mean anything.

i am a british person living outside europe currently - i pay for visas, i go through long visa gaining processes now 6 monthly including a security interview and showing how i have financially supported myself as i do not have a work permit here. if i did want a work permit here it would be a long and difficult process and expensive and the process has to be repeated rather than just a permanent waiver. the country also expects employers to justify why they have given a job to a non national if they do - there has to be good reason.

being here does not give me access to any education, medical care, services etc unless i pay. if i was to get in trouble with the police (even if i had a work permit and residency) i'd put on a plane and deported after a scary spell in jail.

yes there are british migrants in non european countries BUT there is no comparison really. people here find it incredible that people who enter england can get free healthcare, education and if in desperate need can be given accommodation and food and help. no, people don't get handed out benefits the second they arrive but they have to be housed and fed - we don't just leave them to starve. to people from countries without systems like that of course it sounds appealing but it also sounds outright crazy. they will ask how can you do that? don't english people go mad? how can you afford it? etc.

i'm afraid it needs to become consistent, loud and clear that people either register and follow process in the first country they come to or simply become criminals. it's not an alien concept - most countries they're coming from have it by law that you must have your ID papers on you at all times and go through a hell of a lot of checks when traveling. if caught in this country without your ID card you go to jail until someone can come verify your identity with evidence. the current problem is that no one is enforcing laws and the countries receiving people as ports of arrival are overwhelmed/pissed off at europe's lack of support/etc.

'but they're fleeing for their lives' is being devalued to be honest by people applying it to the groups it no longer applies to, and in some cases didn't apply to. that needs reserving for those genuinely fleeing a horrific life threatening situation and stopping and following the law once they reach safety. i don't want to see compassion fatigue for those people because others are well meaningly perhaps mixing them up with people chosing criminal, disruptive and dangerous behaviour to get what they want.

This is great. Unfortunately it's not on youtube. www.facebook.com/IamSouthAfrican/videos/840977289283837/?pnref=story

"What is their attitude towards UK women?"

This is also what worries me. We already have enough nutters who want Sharia law in this country.

Ultimately though it boils down to the fact that these people are already in France. A safe, wealthy, country which is pleasant to live in. So why are they trying to reach the UK illegally? I read in the Times today that someone who died in the Tunnel had a civil engineering degree. So why the hell didn't he claim asylum in France and then apply to come into the UK? We need engineers!

one would hope he was a single male who could gamble his ife on a whim. sadly there are also 'families' there - people who have put their tiny children on life defying boats to get to italy, greece or malta and then strangely have decided not to apply for asylum but instead to continue illegally to travel across europe and use any remaining funds they have to get to place x. it's not unreasonable for people to say why the fuck would you do that?

correct me if Im wrong but please, no shouting!

UK.

overcrowded schools (and wheres health and safethy on that one then?)

overcrowded NHS/GPs/hospitals.

major housing shortage.

still in this day and age homeless people.

not enough jobs.

Yet more cuts to the disabled and their carers.

spare room tax for disabled (room for medical equipment etc).

yet the government throwing millions away making fences.

Crime on the increase (despite what ''statistics'' say) people arent bothering to report it any more as nothing ever gets done.

and the calias lot are commiting crime in order to get here too.
food banks.

and while the medias covering the tunnel, they'll try the ferries and other means.

overcrowding here because of immigration, as not just one person comes (hopefully to actually work) but they bring their usually big families, many kids, the grandparents etc over too.

and despite scumeron saying they WON'T get benefits and housing., of COURSE they will, otherwise they 'll pull out the ''rascist'' and ''human rights'' card and HAVE to be accomodated.

Its one thing to have compassion but its another thing to neglect your own completely just to be a soft touch and politically correct.

And why suddenly? why in the last year or so ? havent their been war/terrorism over there for years, why are they all fleeing now?

dont these countries have a safer area? dont they have an army to fight for their homeland?

when it was WW2 the UK didnt all go to other countries, they stayed here, the kids moved to the safer countryside for a while, but the people stayed and fought for the country.

I think THATS whats causing the outrage.