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Original poster

Please don't shout at me, can someone explain the situation in calais

65 replies

StealthPolarBear · 01/08/2015 22:22

I've been on holiday and not keeping up with the news. BBC has stuff but has moved on from the basics and u can't seem to find a simple explanation.
Are these people mainly from somalia/Eritrea? Why has this all come to a head now, what is different from 3 months ago? And how does operation stack fit in?
I know there are lots of threads about the rights and wrongs, but I need to start at the basic facts. Thank you

OP posts:
PressEscape · 01/08/2015 23:56

Many other European countries take in more asylum seekers than we do. They're not all coming here at all!

WetAugust · 02/08/2015 00:05

It's interesting to note that the problem of unprocessed migrant camps does not exist at other ports, such as Zeebrugge or even at other French ports. It's been said that the Mayor of Calais is not being as helpful as she could. I have read that Calais authorities actually benefit from grants while they have this migrant population.

Meanwhile Cameron has stated that the streets of the UK are " not paved with gold" which is negated by the Daily Mail's front page spread showing recent migrant arrivals enjoying their stay at a hotel with pool and leisure centre.

Cameron doesn't seem to have a grip in this crisis and his spin doctors appear to be particularly useless.

IPityThePontipines · 02/08/2015 00:05

Approximately 4 million people have fled Syria. According to the UN, this is the worst refugee crisis since WW2.

The vast majority of those have gone to neighbouring countries such as Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey. The 4th largest "city" in Jordan is a Syrian refugee camp.

Those countries are now much tougher to enter and more difficult to gain black market employment in, so people are having to flee even further.

English is the second language of most of the world, so fleeing to an English speaking country is greatly appealing.

Germany and Sweden have taken far, far more Syrian refugees then we have.

GiddyOnZackHunt · 02/08/2015 00:09

Garmin. Get a map. Which other European countries don't have a land border? They are focussed on a single point of entry for the UK.

GiddyOnZackHunt · 02/08/2015 00:11

Lebanon has something like 4.5 million citizens. They now have a million Syrian refugees. So plainly they aren't all at Calais.

var123 · 02/08/2015 00:17

If the French gave these people passports, they could all come here without any problems at all under EU rules. If I were the French govt, I'd be seriously toying with that option.

However, 5000(?) men are in Calais right now without any visa etc. They are on French soil but the French don't seem remotely interested in that fact. Am I missing something?

They are not speaking to them one by one and finding out whether they are refugees or just economic migrants (or anyone else who might have a reason for coming to the UK without papers). Refugees should get refugee status in whichever country they first set foot in and the rest should be deported.

But as that is not happening, then these men have no reason to just give up and go home. They've come a long way to get to Calais and they are going to keep trying until they get through the last 30 miles or so. But if and when they get through, it will encourage more will come.

So, the Uk needs to decide whether it wants to just let them in and anyone else who wants to come, or alternatively, properly secure the borders. The current situation is unsustainable, and will not be solved with better fences and a few sniffer dogs.

var123 · 02/08/2015 00:20

Why do people think they are all Syrians? They come from a range of countries and just travelled through Libya or Syria because those countries have completely broken down

GraceGrape · 02/08/2015 00:24

Regarding the question of which other countries migrants want to get to, let's take Syria as an example, as this is where many of the migrants at the tunnel are reported to be from. According to the UNHCR, there are currently more than 4 million Syrian refugees. The vast majority have been taken in by neighbouring countries such as Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan, who are struggling to cope but not turning refugees away. Around 300,000 applications have been made by Syrians for asylum in Europe. 50% of these applied to Germany or Sweden. 25% of the rest applied to Serbia, Hungary, Austria or the Netherlands. The number who applied to the UK was too tiny to be mentioned. Of course, these statistics don't make such good headlines for the DM or similar.

The effort made by the UK government towards Syrian refugees is frankly appalling. The situation at the tunnel is hardly comparable to that faced by Turkey, trying to feed and provide shelter for hundreds of thousands of refugees. Or for the island of Lampedusa, which receives boatloads of migrants from Libya. The whole situation has been whipped up into a disproportionate frenzy by elements of the British media because it has occurred during our busiest holiday period. Yes, there are some migrants who want to come to the UK. Maybe they have family connections, speak English or have been persuaded that there is a better life here. But let's not kid ourselves that we are the only country affected. Other, far-less wealthy countries, can and do take people in.

GraceGrape · 02/08/2015 00:25

X-post with ipity as I took such a long time to type!

GiddyOnZackHunt · 02/08/2015 00:28

I'm tired of people (not just var BTW) saying they should be 'deported'. Think about this for a few moments.

  1. They have no documents to prove their nationality. Will the country they're sent to accept them
  2. Are there any direct options to send them to the country we want to remove them to? If not, how are you going to get them home?
  3. Some regimes have form for imprisoning anyone who is deported after a failed asylum claim.
  4. Do you really want to send people back to hell holes? They might not be political refugees but they cannot rely on the rule of law. People are up in arms about Cecil the lion but we turn a blind eye to people deported to Mugabe's capriciousness; to Asad's chemical weapons; to Somalia's chaos.
GiddyOnZackHunt · 02/08/2015 00:37

And one more sorry. The West abhorred Ghaddafi and cheerfully lent themselves to bombing in aid of the rebels. That opened up all sorts of divisions and chaos in Libya. The result is the increase in migrant traffic through Libyan ports towards Europe. We cannot resist meddling on the grounds of human rights but God forbid we cope with the consequences of that meddling. Western governments welcomed the Arab Spring. But they were supposed to stay home and 'enjoy' it.

CointreauVersial · 02/08/2015 00:39

Does anyone have a view as to how long all this disruption will go on for?

We are travelling over to Europe in about three weeks. DH seems to think it will all have "blown over" by then, but I'm not convinced. I've just booked the Harwich Hook of Holland ferry; staying well away from the chaos.

var123 · 02/08/2015 00:40

If they are claiming asylum, then process those claims.

If they aren't (and some aren't), then ask them where they came from and send them back there.

Or simply have an open door policy on immigration.
I can only see two choices.

var123 · 02/08/2015 00:46

CointreauVersial - David Cameron said a couple of days ago that he thinks it will go on all summer. I am beginning to realise that he's right because nothign is happening to change the status quo.

I've been watching the news everyday for two weeks now, hoping it will die down because we need to drive over to mainland Europe. If it goes on much longer we will have to cancel the trip and work out a plan B for the work part fo the trip.

GiddyOnZackHunt · 02/08/2015 00:51

var I'm afraid you know very little of the legalities so your post is I'll informed. Ask them where they came from and send them back there?
How? Pop over to France. Rip up your papers and tell them you're a US citizen. See how that goes.
Plus you cannot claim asylum in the UK unless you are on UK soil. The migrants don't want asylum. They want to work or study.

Icantbelieveitsnotbutter · 02/08/2015 00:54

It's a big worry really.
We have no idea who these people are. They could be criminals, terrorists etc..

It's frightening. My sister was gang raped by illegal immigrants 2 years ago. We found out that they had done similar crimes back home too.

Those people shouldn't have been here. If our borders were policed correctly my sister wouldn't be the shadow of herself like she is today!

And the fuckers will be able to appeal to stay here when they are released from prison. The system is pathetic.

var123 · 02/08/2015 00:58

Are you saying that they are at risk from the French govt and can't claim asylum there?! Or that only the UK offers asylum? I think you are not.

As I understand the rules of these things, you are obliged to claim asylum in the first country you reach (which probably was not France either). There is no need for them to come to Britain simply to claim asylum, they can claim it anywhere that's safe.

If they want to work or study here - well we do have a visa system.

GiddyOnZackHunt · 02/08/2015 01:01

Furthermore Fast tracking of asylum claims was recently deemed to be unlawful in the UK. Asylum claims must be fully considered. Where are asylum seekers to be accommodated during the process?
butter I've read your posts before and it is dreadful what happened to your sister. If I remember rightly they were criminals who should have been deported at the end of their sentence in UK prisons but weren't? No we don't know who migrants are. Some will be bad and some will be good. The current system encourages anonymity through illegality. As long as it is a black market then we will get bad apples but as sad as your sister's case is, it isn't as if no Brits commit crimes.

GiddyOnZackHunt · 02/08/2015 01:08

No var I'm not saying the French govt doesn't meet any Geneva convention obligations.
You are assuming they want political asylum. I am saying they don't necessarily because they want to work or study. Asylum seekers are very restricted. Just being from somewhere where civil war is raging does not qualify you for asylum. And therefore why risk claiming in a country that might return you to that war. Far better to illegally enter a country who will let you go through due process if you're caught here.
Off to my safe bed now.

hackmum · 02/08/2015 14:08

"And the fuckers will be able to appeal to stay here when they are released from prison."

While I have every sympathy for your sister, if they were illegal immigrants, as you say, then the normal procedure would be to deport them after their sentence.

Chipstick10 · 02/08/2015 23:54

They are hardly desperate otherwise they would claim asylum in the first country they reach .

GiddyOnZackHunt · 03/08/2015 00:05

Oh do go and read some other threads Chip.

Chipstick10 · 03/08/2015 00:15

And you are the forum police are you Giddy ? You decide who can and can't comment legitimately on a thread.

GiddyOnZackHunt · 03/08/2015 00:25

I merely suggested you did some reading. You know, facts and stuff. Rather than leaping to Daily Fail assumptions. The whole 'If they were ... then they would ...' is facile.

ASAS · 03/08/2015 00:35

Oh butter that's so awful x