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Oops, they got it wrong about cholesterol

545 replies

claig · 26/05/2015 13:33

"We've all spent time worrying about our cholesterol levels, but what if it was all... a conspiracy! What if the truth was that eating lots of fat doesn't clog your arteries and kill you, and that there's been a deliberate effort to ignore that evidence in order to secure the financial fortunes of Big Pharma's major anti-cholesterol drugs?"

www.cbsnews.com/news/dawn-of-the-cholesterol-skeptics-big-pharma-conspiracy-theorists-get-a-turn-in-the-spotlight/

"Flawed science triggers U-turn on cholesterol fears"
...
Its Dietary Guidelines Advisory Committee plans to no longer warn people to avoid eggs, shellfish and other cholesterol-laden foods.

The U-turn, based on a report by the committee, will undo almost 40 years of public health warnings about eating food laden with cholesterol. US cardiologist Dr Steven Nissen, of the Cleveland Clinic, said: 'It's the right decision. We got the dietary guidelines wrong. They've been wrong for decades.'

Doctors are now shifting away from warnings about cholesterol and saturated fat and focusing concern on sugar as the biggest dietary threat.

The Daily Mail's GP Martin Scurr predicts that advice will change here in the UK too.
...
He added that the food industry had effectively contributed to heart disease by lowering saturated fat levels in food and replacing it with sugar.

Matt Ridley, a Tory peer and science author, yesterday said there should be an inquiry 'into how the medical and scientific profession made such an epic blunder'.

He described the change of advice in the US as a 'mighty U-turn' and said studies linking high cholesterol and saturated fat in food to heart disease were 'tinged with scandal'."

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3096634/Why-butter-eggs-won-t-kill-Flawed-science-triggers-U-turn-cholesterol-fears.html

I wonder if a similar thing will happen in about 40 years to the "save the planet" climate change warnings.

Oops!

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PacificDogwood · 28/05/2015 16:59

OMG, claig, I admire the time and effort you put in to your posts Grin

It's not really new news though re cholesterol and fats, is it?

OrlandoWoolf · 28/05/2015 17:02

Cholesterol, for example, long vilified by the media and medical community, actually promotes neurogenesis

Did you know that cholesterol is mostly synthesised by the liver? So your point is invalid as the body makes it.

higher levels of serum cholesterol correlates to more robust cognitive prowess

What type of cholesterol? HDL / LDL? Do you know where the cholesterol comes from? Again - made by the body.

It is really important for you to understand that most cholesterol is made by the body.

claig · 28/05/2015 17:03

'It's not really new news though re cholesterol and fats, is it?'

I agree, lots of us have known it for ages and have ignored the advice from the Ministry of Truth. The mere mention of the Ministry in a Daily Mail article has for years provoked a flurry of comments that are none too complimentary. We all know we are being spun. But still the official advice remains almost the same as ever.

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claig · 28/05/2015 17:07

'So your point is invalid as the body makes it.'

The body makes nearly everything in an emergency in order survive and takes energy from where it can, but that is no way to live. We need to eat food in order to replenish the body, and eggs, butter, meat, fish, saturated fats etc are all very important for our health contrary to what we have for so long been told.

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OrlandoWoolf · 28/05/2015 17:07

claig

TBH - I'm not entirely sure you understand what line you think you've been spun.

Cholesterol levels are not really related to the amount of fat you take in.

A diet high in processed food is not good for you.
Nor is a diet high in sugar (not complex carbs) - sugar.

The question is the balance of complex carbs, fats (type of fats and oils), proteins and micronutrients. Plus fibre.

We've also got cancer and the preventative role of food in that to think about.

OrlandoWoolf · 28/05/2015 17:09

The body makes nearly everything in an emergency in order survive and takes energy from where it can, but that is no way to live

No - the body makes what it needs. Food is broken down, absorbed and then the body makes what it needs.

It's called biochemistry.

claig · 28/05/2015 17:11

And what happens when the body runs out of food, what does it start to do then?

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OrlandoWoolf · 28/05/2015 17:11

Again - you do realise that many molecules can't be absorbed in the intestine so they are broken down to simple molecules for easy absorption.

OrlandoWoolf · 28/05/2015 17:13

And what happens when the body runs out of food, what does it start to do then
You know that smell from people on the Atkins diet>
It's called ketosis.
That's your body in starvation mode. Glycogen, fats and then protein. You're pretty fucked by then.

So your body resorts to any way it knows to make glucose.

Marmitelover55 · 28/05/2015 17:17

I heard Dr Malcolm Kendrick, author of The Great Cholesterol Con, speak at the Thyroid UK conference last year - it was fascinating and totally changed my opinion on cholesterol being "bad".

claig · 28/05/2015 17:17

Foods to Avoid for High Cholesterol
'Cholesterol levels are not really related to the amount of fat you take in.'

The advice we have been given over years is to avoid foods that cause high cholesterol this is from WebMD. We were told by Ancel Keyes et al that high cholesterol used heart attacks and heart disease.

This is from WebMD

? Limit saturated fats and oils, such as butter, bacon drippings, lard, palm oil, and coconut oil. Instead, use soft tub margarine or vegetable oils, such as olive or canola oil.
? Avoid trans fats or partially hydrogenated vegetable oils. These oils go through a process that makes them solid. They're found in some hard margarines, snack crackers, cookies, chips, and shortenings.
? Limit fatty meats such as corned beef, pastrami, ribs, steak, ground meat, hot dogs, sausage, bacon, and processed meats like bologna. Also limit organ meats like liver and kidney. Replace with skinless chicken or turkey, lean beef, veal, pork, lamb, and fish. Try some meatless main dishes, like beans, peas, pasta, or rice.
? Limit meat, poultry, and fish to no more than two servings, or 5 oz (140 g), a day. Remember that a serving is about the size of a deck of playing cards.
? Limit egg yolks.
? Limit milk products that contain more than 1% milk fat. This includes cream, most cheeses, and nondairy coffee creamers or whipped topping (which often contain coconut or palm oils). Instead try fat-free or low-fat milk (0% to 1% fat) and low-fat cheeses.

www.webmd.com/cholesterol-management/foods-to-avoid-for-high-cholesterol

But now the official line is beginning to do a u-turn because not too many people believe it anymore and authors and articles and books are all over the place saying that it is wrong.

"Its Dietary Guidelines Advisory Committee plans to no longer warn people to avoid eggs, shellfish and other cholesterol-laden foods.

The U-turn, based on a report by the committee, will undo almost 40 years of public health warnings about eating food laden with cholesterol. US cardiologist Dr Steven Nissen, of the Cleveland Clinic, said: 'It's the right decision. We got the dietary guidelines wrong. They've been wrong for decades.'

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claig · 28/05/2015 17:21

'Instead, use soft tub margarine'

And this is on WebMD, and some of us have known that this is nonsense for over 30 years.

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OrlandoWoolf · 28/05/2015 17:24

claig

If you had a low HDL /LDL ratio, would you be worried?

What would you do about it?

claig · 28/05/2015 17:26

'What would you do about it?'

I'd make an omelette, a juicy steak and top it off with a large glass of red.

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OrlandoWoolf · 28/05/2015 17:27

I don't think that would help.

Nice though.

Charis1 · 28/05/2015 17:28

I really don't get your point. Who put it on webMD? why should you be holding them up as any sort of example of anything.Iit is just an internet page.

Claig, have you ever seen the inside of a furred up artery?

I think you just need to calm down and stop wearing yourself into a tizzy. You don't really have anything coherent to say, your are just copying and pasting people who contradict each other, over a topic you don't seem to have any back ground or experience in.

hackmum · 28/05/2015 17:37

noddyholder: "I think claig was joking"

It would be nice to think so. But actually it's true - s/he really does get most of his/her information from the Daily Mail. It's quite obvious that claig has no understanding of actual science. Everything claig writes on here is bonkers - and there's absolutely no point arguing with him/her because repeatedly being proved wrong won't make even the tiniest dent in his/her beliefs. It's like the people who think the moon landings were faked and the royal family are shape-shifting lizards. I don't know why anybody bothers.

claig · 28/05/2015 17:38

'What would you do about it?'

I would eat fish

"How You Can Improve Your TG/HDL Ratio

You can improve your TG/HDL ratio in two ways. First, decrease your insulin levels. Excess insulin has been shown to increase triglyceride levels; lowering insulin will lower these levels. Another way to decrease the TG/HDL ratio is to supplement your diet with high-dose, ultra refined-grade fish oils.* Of course, the fastest and most effective way is to do both simultaneously.

The speed at which simple changes in the diet can improve your TG/HDL ratio was demonstrated in a study, conducted by Gerald Reaven at Stanford, in which patients were put on diets consisting of the same number of calories but differing in their protein-to-carbohydrate ratio. When these patients consumed a high-carbohydrate diet, they had a much higher TG/HDL ratio than when they switched to a lower-carbohydrate diet. These changes occurred within four weeks of each dietary change.

Likewise, Bruce Holub at the University of Guelph in Canada has shown that postmenopausal women can rapidly reduce their diets with 3.5 grams of ultra refined-grade fish oil per day.

Now let’s say we combine these approaches. This could only result in an enhanced improvement in the ratio. This combined approach is my dietary program.
...

They were amazed to find that the patients with the low TG/HDL ratio who smoked, didn’t exercise, had hypertension, and had elevated levels of LDL cholesterol had a much lower risk of developing heart disease than those who had a far better lifestyle but a higher TG/HDL ratio. This indicated that lowering your TG/HDL ratio may have a far greater impact on whether you develop heart disease than adopting a better lifestyle
...

If cholesterol levels are not the best way to predict heart disease, what is? The other theory about the molecular cause of heart attacks, put forward in the 1970s, primarily by Russell Ross of the University of Washington, was that atherosclerosis was an inflammatory disease (like Alzheimer’s disease). Since inflammation is a very complex process and very difficult to measure in the bloodstream, this theory of heart disease had far fewer advocates.

Cholesterol was still blamed for most cases of heart disease up until the mid-1990s. Through the 1970s and 1980s, drug companies kept rolling more and more cholesterol-lowering drugs into the marketplace, even though these drugs caused only modest reductions in the rate of heart attacks. In 1995, though, a new class of cholesterol-lowering drugs, called statins, came onto the scene. These drugs were found to be far more effective at preventing heart attacks than other cholesterol-lowering drugs. Cardiovascular researchers were certain that those wonder drugs worked their magic by lowering “bad” cholesterol levels. (The fact that lowering insulin did the same was never considered.)

As it turns out, statins were like the great and powerful Oz – just a man behind the curtain. They didn’t work their magic by lowering cholesterol levels. They actually had a much broader spectrum of action than anyone ever anticipated: they were also powerful anti-inflammatory agents. At the same time as this discovery was made, researchers at the Harvard Medical School found that certain pro-inflammatory proteins, called C-reactive proteins, were highly predictive markers for an increased risk of heart disease. With this new clinical tool, they and other researchers found that statin drugs lowered the levels of these C-reactive proteins. In fact, it was in the patients with the highest levels of C-reactive protein that the statins had their greatest impact. Thus, statins worked just like aspirin to reduce inflammation and thus reduce heart attacks – only statins cost a lot more and are less effective. (The statins also involve one other small problem: they potentially decrease cholesterol-production in the brain. This would lead to decreased production of new synaptic connections and loss of memory, which is one of the known side effects of these drugs.)

Heart Disease Rx: Reduce Inflammation

If reducing inflammation is so powerful in reducing our death rate from heart attacks, the solution should be simple: add more fish oil to the diet. This idea was first posed in the 1970s by researchers who found through epidemiological studies that Eskimos in Greenland had virtually no heart disease even though they consumed a high-fat diet. Over the years, additional studies suggested that the more fish you consume, the lower your risk of dying from heart disease."

www.cbn.com/health/naturalhealth/drsears_heartattack.aspx

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OrlandoWoolf · 28/05/2015 17:43

Can you summarise that copy and paste article into simple advice?

claig · 28/05/2015 17:43

' Who put it on webMD? why should you be holding them up as any sort of example of anything.Iit is just an internet page.'

The article was put up by WebMD Healthwise staff and reviewed by a doctor. People tend to believe what they read on there.

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Charis1 · 28/05/2015 17:44

I would eat fish

well there you go, that blows all those "natural" arguments straight out of the water doesn't it, human evolved NOT to eat fish.

claig · 28/05/2015 17:45

'Can you summarise that copy and paste article into simple advice?'

Yes, eat fish to reduce inflammation which is a bigger factor in reducing heart attacks than cholesterol

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Charis1 · 28/05/2015 17:45

People tend to believe what they read on there maybe they do maybe they don't at the end of the day it is just web page, so what?

I still have no idea what you are trying to say.

claig · 28/05/2015 17:48

' human evolved NOT to eat fish.'

Where did you get that from? I prefer Dr Weston A. Price to Ancel Keyes and he studied primitive tribes etc and catalogued their diets and said that they eat fish.

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claig · 28/05/2015 17:51

'maybe they do maybe they don't at the end of the day it is just web page, so what?'

Are you serious? When people are ill or at risk of heart attacks, they research what they can find and they believe sites like WebMD. It is a great resource that helps people. Lots of people believe it and take its advice and most of the time it is good advice. However, i query the advice about soft tub margarine, but some people may not know about that.

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