UK teens among the most badly behaved in Europe

[WhizzBangCaligula]

Oh God.

report here

This is so depressing. I want to move.

I can't believe you lot are taking this study at face value. why does the high proportion of teenagers out with their frinds mean brits are more antisocial? I spent most evenings at 14/15 out on my bike too. I wasn't anti-social.

You only have to look at the conclusion - "The researchers believe the country's record can be explained by a collapse in family and community life in the UK" to be suspicious, surely? don't get me wrong here - they could have a point, but it all sounds far too black and white to me.

Martian Bishop. That teacher from "That'll Teach 'em" was on Jeremy Vine talking about homework and he echoed what you are saying. He rattked out that phrase "if you want something done, ask a busy person" He believes the more school kids do, the more they are motivated to do.

MadamePlatypus, I wish I had something to say, but I don't really know any Italian or English teenager. And funnily enough, after 7 years in England, I don't feel I really know how society is changing in my own country, and yet, don't really understand how it works here... (which makes me what, a bit emariginated, maybe). I also was 15 in 1985!
Anyway, I'd say that the way italian teenagers behave mostly depends on how they have been brought up by their families, their families background and expectations, what kind of school they go to, what area they are from, what expectations they have for themselves, whether they have or not any political view, etc.
They certainly seem to move around with scooters a lot and in fact, I wonder where do they find the money.

I think they have way too much hwk. Don't know where govt got their info from, most of my students haven't got time to get ASBO's they are all doing 4 hours coursework at night, I think they are doing way too much homework.

I was in loads of activities myself - ballet, orienteering, and music lessons.

My sister - dance, acting and art.

Even my mother - bridge club, poker group, t'ai chi, painting and drawing.

And my dad - golf, Knights of Columbus, etc.

We all sat round hte table together every evening, though, even if Dad was working abroad and it was just us and Mama.

I don my hard hat at this suggestion but televisions in bedrooms could be more of a problem than where and when a family eats its meal.

Imagine the children who have been brought up by a television with no adult sat by their side to add their perspective or discuss what the children are watching. {{{shudder}}}

And before people say that they monitor their child's viewing or restrict when they can disappear to their bedrooms and watch TV alone - there must be many others who don't.

Totally agree Aderyn.

And for me, it's not just about the monitoring viewing aspect. It's the sharing time together aspect and the negotiation. ATM, my kids are young enough to love snuggling up altogether in front of the X Factor or Robin Hood or whatever, and they also have to learn negotiation and compromise - when DD wants to watch CBeebies, DS wants to watch Basil Brush and I want to watch Corrie, they have to learn how to bargain and negotiate. (Who had their own way last time, whose programme is repeated later, whose can be video-taped for later viewing, etc.) If every kid goes off to their own room, they don't need to engage in that kind of compromise so that's one more learning opportunity lost.

Well, it's the overall pattern that matters - if you eat round a table 3x a day it won't matter quite so much if you have tvs in your rooms, and if you all sit down in front of the tv every evening for 2 hours of bonding and negotiation and compromise it might not matter so much that you're eating individual readymeals on your lap.

Not read all of this but surley this could also read.....UK parents amoungst the worst in Europe.
Don't think things will change unless middle class parents stop educating their DC privately.
NAGY runs away and hides!

What has middle class parents and private education got to do with it?

Why do you say that NAGY if you concede that the prob is the parents? What difference would it make to the amount of time teens spend with their own families if all children attended Comprehensive schools?

So what's new? British kids have been the worst behaved in Europe for about forty years. They're famous for it.

I think nagy has a point.
there also a good article in today's guardian...

I think it is more than a little insulting to suppose that schools only imporve if middle class parents get involved!

I also feel that it is insulting to assume that it is only working class children who misbehave.

Yes. Aren't the problems in Rock in Cornwall caused by very middle-class young people behaving like wildebeests?

This isn't what I meant though. I just can't understand why, at least where I live, there is such a separation. I don't think it's healthy.

Not that I mean to insult widebeests, of course.

And many of those kids who go to brat camp seem middle class!

To my utter shame I went into MacDonald's to get myself an apple pie and coffee the other day. DS and I had sat down for about 5 mins. when something like 50 teenagers from a local school (dodgy part of North London) poured in.

Within minutes they had managed to take out every single straw and wooden spoon and chuck them on the floor. The swearing and shouting was unbelievable. You should have seen the faces on the poor Mac. staff. They looked terrified, but thankfully, didn't say a thing.

I was so worried about what would happen next and for DS I took DS and rushed to eat my apple pie in the car

I went to a very middle class posh private girls school in my youth. I don't think the girls in my school were particularly well-mannered. I was bullied for months when I first arrived at the school beacuse I was the "outsider". This is when I was only 9 years old. I used to go home in tears sometimes.

That is why I am not even going to try to get my son into a private school. It is no guarantee that he will get a decent education or decent manners. I still know some private school, Oxbridge educated people who have shocking manners, even as adults.

Manners have nothing to do with social status or where you study. I think it is more to do with the way your parents bring you up.

yellowrose, my experience is the same as yours. I went to a very posh boarding school for the 6th form, and met some of the vilest and rudest people I've ever come across there.
As a comparison, I did some work experience at a local comp (admittedly the best in the county) this year and the teenagers were mostly very well-mannered and friendly.

My eldest dd could probably get into a private secondary school on an academic scholarship, but I really don't want her to spend her formative years in the company of over-priviledged, foul-mannered and completely over-confident snobs.

geekgrrl - the vilest, biggest snob I have ever known (my ex-boyfreind with whom I spent far too many years in my 20's) had been to a totally posh grammar school and then Oxford. My DH (both his parents are teachers) on the other hand hasn't had such a privileged background but because he has parents who emphasised good manners, is the nicest, kindest man I have ever met ; )

In fact when we first met, he was amazed that a woman could have such a foul mouth like mine (I told him it was because I had watched too many episodes of the Sopranos and spent too many years working in the City !!)

so we really are all agreed that uk teenagers are the worst behaved in europe then? because some right-wing sounding think tank says so?

one of the things that infuriates me about the british is that we are so much readier than other nationalities to proclaim ourselves the "worst" at something. if you published a report that said spanish teenagers are the most badly behaved in some comparison group - which you probably could do - there's be a national outcry.nothing in that report convinces me that uk teenagers are the worst behaved in europe. they;re not even the biggest drinkers for god's sake.

Hello SP

But shouldn't a RIGHT-wing think tank be saying that British kids are the BEST behaved ?

You would think only old commi's like me would be saying they are badly behaved

its very easy to demonise teenagers. around this area there was one of those bans in place where more than 2 teens could be seperated - fear of yob culture.

fear of teenagers - irony is my three teen kids could have been walking home together - and the police could have seperated them.

i dont mind a group of kids. i love seeing kids in the street playing football. but some miserable fuckers think thats antisocial - i think its fucking grea that kids still do that - rather than play on playstation/xbox whatever - alone, in room.

kids make their own entertainmnet - and my dh used to be a youth leader and we jointly spouted diversionary activities at every juncture. really we both know - its a load of crap.

it would be nice if there were places where kids could go that didnt cost the earth and have a nice time

however its not essential - kids will play footy or catch, kerby or just hang around.

the reason that kids cause ASB - graffitti, swearing and spitting is no manners. no one to feel proud of them

no one to feel dissapointed in them

no one to have hope in them.

no one to be scared of when you got home

no structure
no discipline

and all this in a context of a wider comunity frown.

if in a public place like macdonalds some kids started doing that in front of my children - i would absolutley say quite loudly " EXCUSE ME. YOU BEHAVIOUR IS DISGUSTING. STOP IT IMMEDIATLEY OR I WILL CALL THE POLICE"

OBVIOUSLY IN PARTS OF LONDON OR MANCHESTER - YOU COULD GET KNIVED OR SHOT but generally i think a lot of us as individuals have to take responsability for letting this happen

just like P&T spaces at the supermarket carpark. Voice your opinion. say "excuse me. you dropped this " as your handing the crisp packet back to them.

i truly believe there are more good people than bad - i truly believe that there is a fair proportion of society with the same ideals as me.
together we could change it. we could!

just like smoking has been demonised ( rightly) and beast is now very firmly best - we can change societal expectations.

Custy for PM!