Labour; NO ‘Non Doms’ = less tax receipts for the NHS etc?

[Isitmebut]

England has had the ‘Non Domiciled’ status since Pitt (the younger) in 1799, so why is Miliband (the younger) from the party that gave us the lowest emergency interest rates since 1694 (when the BoE was formed) - looking to end that status when many of their spending policies was being promised on taxing the wealthy?

At an historic stroke, Labour has told the world that the UK is not a country to have any wealth, in addition to ‘not open for business’.

There are around 116,000 ‘non doms’, that thanks to Osborne are paying obscene amount of VAT, paying up to a £90k levy to be here, increased Home Stamp Tax and Council Tax rates – and hiring staff from P.A.’s to gardeners.

So regarding the Mansion Tax, how many citizens did they think were going to pay it, ‘only’ how many is designated to pay for fixed spending on the NHS in England and Scotland????

Non Doms, that doubled in numbers under Labour, are only taxed on their UK earnings and money brought into the UK, NOT their world wide earnings, where they are taxed elsewhere.

High end property prices have stalled for several months now as the wealthy wait to see what changes of ideology affect them resulting from the May General Election – so what happens to the tax receipts Labour have already spent, if it is far cheaper and less intrusive by HM Taxman for the wealthy to leave the UK?

And they don’t have to go far; Dublin, guaranteed to stay in the EU, that also has a Corporation Tax nearly half of ours, around 12.5%, a tax Labour has promised to raise for big companies when they are in power.

A 2015 Labour administration will see the largest brain/wealth drain since the one they instigated in the 1970’s, when high tax rates for the wealthy ‘trickled down’ to everyone else in society – when Thatcher inherited a Labour minimum income tax rate of 32%, a higher income tax rate of 60 odd %, any INCOME on investments over 90% and a Corporation Tax of 50%.

Labour now as then, has not worked out WEALTH IS MOBILE, and when they are spending tax receipts that can feck of to the golf courses and lovely city called Dublin at a drop of a hat, the extra taxes no longer trickle down to the masses, they slam down on any hope of aspiration, so why bother earning it.

P.S. And how much £££ will it raise to SEND this message to having any wealth in the UK, hundreds of millions Mr Balls thinks, but don't say how many jobs will be lost.

They still haven't worked out that it is FAR better to try to MAXIMISE the tax take from the wealthy, rather than having NOTHING, but take some ideological high ground, with a honking £80 odd billion annual budget deficit.

Here's a Bannatyne article from 2010 on why nom doms have unfair advantages over competing UK firms who pay their taxes.

And here's that terrible socialist rag the Financial Times from last month on "the madness of King George III's tax system"

"This egregious situation lets the wealthiest enjoy privileges without paying their fair dues".

The article also points out that the British Chief Executive of HSBC, born and raised here, living here for the last 12 years with children in British schools, is able to claim nom-dom status as he worked in Hong Kong at the start of this century.

DonnaLyman ..... of course the policy is POPULAR, why do you think Mr Miliband is launching a policy Mr Balls said they wouldn't a few months ago?

Back in 2008 it was 'popular' to tell the City and their investment banks to sod off elsewhere, but last year the tax receipts was back to pre crash levels, contributing over £60 billion a year to the Exchequer = less spending cuts needed now.

The JOB of a responsible party/leader is not to just offer the populist policies whether a general election or not, it is to offer effective SOLUTIONS to our problems, especially in the tough times - which explains a lot (lack) in 2010, and lack of policy detail now.

For the party that invented the "millionaires tax" as an election trap 1-month before leaving power, this is what happened to the French (Euro) millionaires tax.

December 2014; France forced to drop 75% supertax after meagre returns

"Hollande’s measure was meant to force wealthiest to help dig country out of economic crisis, but was accused of being anti-business"
www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/31/france-drops-75percent-supertax

"François Hollande’s unpopular tax changes that imposed a 75% rate on earnings above €1m (£780,000) will quietly disappear into the history books from Thursday."

"The French socialist president announced plans for the controversial measure during his 2012 election campaign as a means of forcing the wealthiest to help dig the country out of economic crisis."

"Although supported by the left, the reform sparked accusations of an anti-business agenda. After the “supertax” was announced in September 2012 the government was accused of shooting itself in the foot by risking an exodus of high-profile personalities. Business leaders expressed fears that investors would pull out of France."

"Despite the backlash Hollande clung to the principle of the supertax even after it was dismissed by the country’s highest court, fearing a revolt by his leftwing allies. The tax was subsequently adjusted to a 50% rate payable by companies after the constitutional council ruling in December 2012."

"Finance ministry studies showed that despite all the publicity, the sums obtained from the supertax were meagre, standing at €260m in 2013 and €160m in 2014, and affecting 1,000 staff in 470 companies. Over the same period, the budget deficit soared to €84.7bn"

So while socialist France looking to over tax has seen their budget deficit RISE to Euro 84.7 billion, under the Conservative coalition, by NOT pursuing damaging populist policies our Annual Budget Deficit has FALLEN from £157 billion to close to £85 billion, over the same period.

Have you answered the articles about why non-dom status should be scrapped, isitmebut?

I have to say though, the mansion tax is a stupid idea - just reform council tax for goodness sake.

I just seen another Labour 'figures' train crash on the Daily Politics with a Labour Shadow Treasury spokesman, as Mr Balls had previously said when ruling it out, 'it may bring in less money'.

Asked now how much money it will bring IN, the spokesman believes that it will, but is unable to qualify a credible source that calculates ANY extra revenue.

Oh dear.

So with no cares to what this will do SOLVE OUR DEFICIT PROBLEMS over the years ahead, as the socialist coalition wants to borrow ever more after 2020 - this is class dog whistle politics, at its worse..

Iggly ... I'm not saying I agree with the damn Nom Dom thing, my problem is that IN PRINCIPLE it has unwound all the good work that has been done over the past 5-years to attract new businesses/investment/jobs shattered by the recession - based on the fiduciary duty of every medium to large sized business to plan ahead for up to 5-years to their shareholders.

Businesses/wealth will have no idea what will hit them from a socialist coalition in the MONTHS ahead, never mind years.

Labour over 13-years DOUBLED the Tolleys Tax Guide to over 16,200 pages and put through more laws than the combined governments in the century before.

The concept of 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' just don't register with 'the tinkerers', as far easier to have 'a tinkle' than actually building something, from homes to sustainable economic growth for all.

Errr ... I don't need to qualify the use of 'tinkle' do I? lol

I now suspect that this Non Dom gesture politics is just damaging general election fodder by Labour, who after their 13-year record sucking up to the rich, need to desperately reinforce their Old Labour voter message that THEY are the party for the poor (despite the poorer record), and that the Conservatives are the party of only the rich.

Especially when Osborne has brought in far more taxes to tax the rich in 5-years, than a New Labour government, run by an Old Labour Chancellor, did in 13-years.

May 2014: “HMRC crackdown yields record £23.9bn in additional tax”
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27576626

”The government has raised a record £23.9bn in additional tax for the year to the end of March as a result of a crackdown on tax avoidance.”

”HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) said it had secured the money - the highest amount since records began - as a result of its investigations.”

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As on the subject of government policies to stop institutional tax avoidance, and actually getting in more taxes to pay DOWN our annual deficit and pay UP for spending on stuff ‘stuff’, behind on my reading I just saw a telling headline within the last Sunday Times Business section;

“Kellogg’s alarm over crackdown on tax avoidance”

”Global food giant Kellogg has warned that its profits could be slashed by the international drive to clamp down on tax avoidance”

”The worlds largest cereal maker has declared that efforts to close loopholes could lead to a “material” rise in its tax bill. It is thought to be the multinational to issue such a stark warning.”

”The revelation comes days after the so called “Google Tax” comes into force in Britain. It is designed to prevent companies funnelling profits overseas to avoid tax.”

This was not a reaction to a general election sounbite, it was the fruits of a global drive to close down on places to hide company earnings etc, championed by a Conservative led administration to BRING IN more taxes, rather than the 'lashings out' of the leader of the next Labour Prime Minister, likely to have drove away taxes – having no doubt again “choked on his cornflakes” reading his paper last Sunday.

G8 ‘Open for Growth’ Event hosted by UK Prime Minister
tax.thomsonreuters.com/media-resources/g8-open-for-growth-event/

”London: June 17, 2013 – Thomson Reuters participated in an event hosted by Prime Minister David Cameron on transparency, tax, and trade – the three topics central to this year’s G8 Summit.”

“Noose tightens around global tax evasion as OECD countries sign new agreement”
www.cityam.com/1414597567/noose-tightens-around-global-tax-evasion-oecd-countries-sign-new-agreement

"The OECD just took a step closer to fighting tax evasion on a global scale, with 51 territories agreeing to create “information exchanges” that will help track culprits down."

"The first signatories to the dull-sounding "multilateral competent authority agreement" – which include the UK and Ireland – will launch their information exchanges by September 2017. Others will follow in 2018."

The problem i have with all this non-dom, mansion tax, clamp down on corporate tax avoidance is that collectively it is sending a very negative message out to the very people we need to attract to the UK to spend money.

Do you think people like Roman Abromavich will be short of places to park his yacht? There comes a point where he will think "fuck it" I'll go spend my cash somewhere else. Which the lefties will say "Good riddance", except he probably pays more actual pounds in tax than the thousands of cleaners, policemen and nurses combined.

niceguy2 …. I agree with your ‘sending the wrong message’ and other points (up to a point), and have another.

So if you listened to the Osborne’s speech on Budget Day over the past 5-years, he has always warned that as he was lowering taxes to both set the UK up as a competitive place to do business and help small, medium and large business still suffering from the lack of credit and economic crash – what he warned in return, was that the UK insisted they pay their taxes due AND warned HM Tax Office would be clamping down on avoidance etc.

Clearly with multinational companies with tax treaties/havens and shareholders looking at bottom lines to answer to, for many companies WITHOUT an international clamp down on taxes, that warning was about as influential (in their legal avoidance actions), as a duck fart in windy weather.

So while HM Tax officers could do their thing (and it looks like they were getting somewhere), UNTIL there was an effective global money/tax transparency and the collective global mission to receive all the taxes due.

My first point being, that if low/competitive UK taxes were to work for its citizens, those in the UK practising tax avoidance or worse, WERE WARNED for 5-years what was required from them, so medium and large businesses can hardly say they were blind sided by a Conservative Chancellor – which is reflected in their endorsement that a lot has been done to help them, but don’t change course now.

Your point that wealth (especially Non Dom) will now leave the UK is 100% correct, as in a world with money/tax transparency, why on Dave’s green earth would a foreign Non Dom in addition to tax on their UK earnings, want to stay in the UK and pay tax on the same assets TWICE, home and abroad?

Within a ‘same old’ tax world, we lose a tax take edge, not just for foreign Non Doms, but British ones too. IMO

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The red card carrying Labour Non Dom ‘expert’ advising a Miliband Labour Party that wealth won’t leave, CITING previous Labour government wealth taxes didn’t drive wealth, is ideologically flawed, as the 1997 to 2010 New Labour administration’s wealth spin doctors were saying one thing for donations, an old Labour Chancellor doing something else (but keeping Capital Gains Tax absurdly low to the rich) - but were expected to be ousted in 2010, so sucked it up.

After this general election the UK will have an Old Labour style government for 5 to 10 years, with 1970’s style wealth envy politics, likely to be in a loose socialist Grand Coalition, with a more left leaning ‘high tax and spend’ SNP, Plaid Cymru, Greens and maybe the Lib Dems, who prior to 2010 strangely were always talking tax rises at election times – so likely to revert back to sandal wearing tree hugging high tax norm – so to anyone or entity with wealth in Britain, the future looks very bleak indeed and very expensive to stay.

Finally in addition to the lower Non Dom tax take, there is the MARKET effect of either driving Non Doms/wealth away, and ideological “fairer taxes”, on homes.

As not only will those selling up CONTINUE to drive down the prices of high end home (bringing in less £££ Mansion or Council Taxes), it is creating MORE demand (see link below) for lower priced properties ACROSS the country, competing with families for homes without the ability to pay up and buy those expensive homes – creating a demand/price compression of middle priced homes, that neither helps the home market, or tax take.

“Oct 2014; Mansion Tax Cutting London Luxury Prices Before It Exists.”
www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-27/mansion-tax-cutting-london-luxury-prices-before-it-exists.html

The red card carrying Labour Non Dom ‘expert’ advising a Miliband Labour Party

You mean Jolyon Maugham QC, one of the UK's top tax specialists? He's a Labour Party member but has advised both main parties on tax loopholes and is happy to point out that the Tories have adopted at least three of his recommendations in the past.

He blogs on tax matters and you can read him on non-doms here. He thinks the Labour changes could raise at last £1bn per year, and he's backed by Danny Blanchflower (ex of the Bank of England's Monetary Policy Committee).

It's also worth reading John Rentoul today. Not a Labour supporter by any means (he thinks "Sensible Labour policies are rarer than foil holographic Charizard cards" ) he argues that for the Tories to defend a historical anomaly which results in hereditary tax-favoured status, is just bonkers.

A good case in point is Jonathan Harmsworth, the current Daily Mail owner. He's 47, was born and educated in the UK, and apart from and undergraduate degree in the US, has never lived or worked abroad. He has hereditary nom-dom status and pays virtually almost no UK tax on his income, investments or wealth.

Yeah, we need to collectively send a message to tax-avoiders that they are welcome in the UK. That's a good plan.

Yeah, we need to collectively send a message to tax-avoiders that they are welcome in the UK. That's a good plan.

I like the policy. It's the first Labour idea I have liked in a loooong time. I am a natural conservative voter. Don't love them, but they are likely to do me the least harm personally.

The nondom arrangement is unfair on the face of it. It is a weird, historical anomaly that should be tidied up. If we want to encourage "wealth creators," we should do it in a straight forward way that is open to everyone here in Britain.

Why do I like the nondom idea, really? I am of the professional classes living in London. I have to compete with these people everyday for scarce resources. I'd love to see them go. (I am the flip side of the working class who are attracted to UKIP because they feel out-competed by new Eastern European migrants. It's not flattering, but I am self-aware.)

Russian oligarchs aren't creating much wealth here as far as I can see. Yes, they pay some taxes; a few estate agents and Ferrari salesmen get commissions; waiters and waitresses get some (hopefully) generous tips. But they aren't creating wealth in the old fashioned sense of the word. People sitting here, looking for a safe place to park their wealth are just driving up asset prices and spending a small amount. They aren't building factories, starting big new ventures etc. They can go to Dublin if they want to.

I doubt they would go to Dublin. Dublin is a smaller, more boring city. They want to be some where big, flash and exciting where their property rights are safe. I think they can pay a little more for the privilege.

The nondom arrangement is unfair on the face of it

I'm not clear what it is that people think is unfair.

In 2012/13 non-doms paid £8.27 billion in income tax and NICs.

If you are a non-dom you have two choices:

• You can pay tax on all your income and gains both UK and foreign. In this case if you have already paid tax in a foreign country on the income received in that country you may be able to claim some or all of it back.

• You can pay tax on your UK income and gains in the normal way along with any foreign income or gains you being into the UK. If you take this option you do not pay tax on your foreign income or gains but you do have to pay an annual fee once you have been resident in the UK for 7 out of the previous 9 tax years. This fee starts at £30,000 and rises to £90,000. Of the 116,000 non-doms 46,700 pay tax on this basis. On average they pay nearly £133,000 per annum, roughly 25 times what the average British taxpayer pays.

BreakWindandFire .... re your

"You mean Jolyon Maugham QC, one of the UK's top tax specialists? He's a Labour Party member but has advised both main parties on tax loopholes and is happy to point out that the Tories have adopted at least three of his recommendations in the past."

"He blogs on tax matters and you can read him on non-doms here. He thinks the Labour changes could raise at last £1bn per year, and he's backed by Danny Blanchflower (ex of the Bank of England's Monetary Policy Committee)."

Jolyon Maugham QC, may be "a tax specialist" and an "advisor", but that does not mean he is right - and citing Danny Blanchflower as another guru reference is a joke isn't it?

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Mr Blanchflower either 'advised' or agreed with Ed Balls that the Conservative/Osborne economic plan would COST 1 million jobs (instead of creating nearly 2 million private sector jobs) and believed that keeping a bloated UK State, racking up higher budget deficits, was the way forward - as apparently ANY government spending was apparently good 'growf' spending, rather than cut the government waste and give tax cuts to the masses.

Hardly a sustainable solution, and hardly progressive when 'the few at the top' were fat government quangocrats. Idiot.

M'lord, I AGAIN put to the QC that from 2015, the Labour UK government in order to honour their policies to 'spend, spend, spend' and 'balance the books' will be far more hostile to businesses/wealth than in their previous administration - so how the feck can he possibly say with authority, that anyone with dosh will stay, never mind put a £££figure on the tax take - look what happened in France?