If you are fed up of the WOHM vs SAHM debate (I know I am) DO NOT open the News Review bit of the Sunday Times....

[foxinsocks]

just don't do it

And it is, I imagine, easier to have five children and a live-in nanny and other assorted help than two common kids and no nanny at all, I'll bet.
Why not, like PPH, count your many blessings instead of pretending that you are a role model for us all.

cor blimey. some people just dont know they are born. madness. thats all i wanted to say. no real contrib, i realise.

The more garbage I read by pyschiatrists, the more my prejudices against that particular profession are confirmed.
The smugness just oozes off the screen, and I pity your patients.

ahhhhhhhh, psychiatrist....

tell me about your childhood.

parp

no mozhe, you misunderstand. when I said "But I wouldn't dare to stand here with my very high-paying professional qualifications, nanny and housekeeper" I was talking about me, not you.
I don't need a lecture on how to run my working and home life, thanks. But I choose not to give them, either.

no Bibliophile, its

On average I work around a 70 hour week

on the £250k/SAHM debate

so nanny defo needed, I just pity the kids being at school such long hours...

I was just thinking that Bibliophile....hmmm, a psychiatrist . Come to think of it, I've never met a consultant who wasn't a heartless weirdo with a God complex.

PPH is one of the few people who are refreshingly - indeed bracingly - honest about the huge benefits of having large sums of money, particularly when it comes to raising children. It is so much more attractive then pretending otherwise and instead simply praising herself in a revolting and patronising manner.

aw...... SHUCKS bibliophile

I choose to completely ignore the pathetic ramblings of Daisy Waugh. I used to enjoy India Knight's column, as the woman used to make interesting observations that would encourage genuine discussion. Waugh writes utter nonsense that we shouldn't even be wiping our arses on. Honestly, it's laughable, the crap she comes up with. Someone bloody sack her and soon. She is clearly desperate to fill India Knight's shoes and thinks that by writing 'controversial' articles that she will make an impression. Instead she sounds like a fool.

Just read some of the bitching going on here - are you guys for real?

no. we are all imaginary gremlins living on your hard drive.

Now, now PPH.
Surely, we should just all live and let live. This is exactly what we shouldn't be doing. We are all doing our best given the circumstances we are in.

I agree 100%

which is what I've said at least twice.

didn't you like my witty reference to your name? sheesh, some people are hard to please

Do you know, if I were a psychiatrist, and a patient came to me complaining that her opinions annoyed just about everyone she spoke to, even if they had almost nothing in common otherwise, I might suggest she might look at herself for the reason why.
And I speak as a working mother.

Oh lol, give DD something to motivate her? Er, but then she wouldn't be helping me with my work. And what do you suggest, let her loose on my clients?

And DS doesn't want me to get involved with his world, he wants me to get the hell off the computer so he can go on the Harry Potter site.

But of course, you know best Mozhe. You and yer mate Daisy.

Come on and patronise me some more, go on, I'm enjoying it.

'psychiatrist bashing' is fun, and we get used to it,so no hard feelings there....I didn't think you were referring to me Bibliophile ! I didn't misunderstand you...surely a case of projective identification ? Ho hum..Incidentally people who come to see psychiatrists usually have slightly more involved problems than the ones you outlined B....I certainly don't underestimate the freedom/choice my income,( and that of my dh, let's not forget him! ),gives me....but surely even you can see beyond your own anger,( and resentment ? ),and realise it's not that simple...Smugness and lectures definitely not intended but i don't se why I can't state clearly what i think and feel....That most women who are parents,( just as most men...),should and could work, and that to do so is probably better in the long run.The fact that some don't is their absolute choice...and i am neither angry nor resentful about that.

No but you are very patronising.

Yes, dear, projective identification...relationship with father...it's all us and our failings and not remotely about you and your hostile and patronising manner ...yawn.

whos india knight then!!

And I notice Mozhe that you haven't addressed the issue of flexible worthwhile work (which is what parents need) not being available. That is one of the most common reasons cited as to why many mothers give up paid work. Not because they want to give up work per se, but because they are simply not offered the flexibility they need to function to their satisfaction both as a mother and as a worker. And when push comes to shove, they decide that if they have to choose one or the other, they'll choose being a mother. The outrage is that they don't have the option of both.

And intelligent journalists get outraged about that. Daisy Waugh gets outraged about a well-organised stranger on a train.

Let's not pretend she's worth taking seriously, eh?

totally fascinatd and mystified to know what SAHMand WOHM stand for. But the article displays racist logic:
i) this full time mother is like this, which means that they ALL are like this!
and
ii) these kids of the full time mother are ungrateful useless brats, so ALL children of full time mothers are ungrateful useless brats.

It's so bloody Marie Antoinetteish to prance about in the comfort of wealth, with your live-in nanny (and your dislike of childcare), preaching to others about how they should jolly well leave the childcare to dear old nanny and they should get out there and do some proper work. Look, some people actually enjoy caring for their own children, more than I do, even. They like it. Find it fun, challenging, rewarding and good for society and believe they are good at it. Just as they would if they were caring for other people's children. And children do need to be cared for. Someone has to do it. You prefer it to be your nanny. Other women prefer it to be them. What on earth is so hard to understand about that? Oh, I don't know why I bother, I really don't.

And nearly all mothers do work after their children are born anyway. Some just take a break. Anyone would think they were the ones with Asbos the way some people go on.

Perfectly explained Bibliophile, I got it.

But then, I'm perfectly capable of understanding that some people make choices which are different from mine and just as valid, though I might not choose to make those choices myself.

And some people's choices are wrong of course and they should be made to do what I do and publicly branded if they don't.