Ron Atkinson.................

[Northerner]

And his 'f*king lazy thick ni*er' comment live on air.

Discuss please.

And we probably had rhymes with really dodgy Irish connotations, over in enlightened Nottingham

Not pious at all, Dino, that's exactly how important it is! And Good Riddance to Ron Atkinson!

Blu, I used the N word in eeny meeny slightly more than 40 years ago...mind you that would have been around the time of the Windrush (?) and the first influx of West Indian immigrants - maybe after the Notting Hill trouble people became more aware?

Did you see the comments by Paul McGrath, who was one of RA's black players? Apparently in training he used to call them coons, but Paul McGrath said that in his defence, and insists that he isn't a racist. (Didn't Alf Garnett used to say coons? And did you notice A's shock about the word "queer"? Where has he been?)

I do remember my mum saying n*** brown when I was a child. Hmmm.

Yes, they used to sing eeny-meenie in my playground too (slightly less than 40 yrs ago!). My friends used to slurr the middle, so it wasn't until much later that I learned the entire rhyme. Dino, I think a certain level of ignorance has to be reached before that word can be used (in adulthood, when you know what it means) whichever era we're talking about. Even if you only have the faintest inkling of it's meaning, it's patently a disrespectful term, and as that disrespect is based on nothing but race, then yes, a milder form in your old granny's case (or whoever), but it's still racism. I think it crosses a line.

The N word was also common currency in Eeny Meeny where I lived 40+ yrs ago. There was Agatha Christie's book, Ten Little N's, later changed to 'Indians', and in the Dambusters film Guy Gibson's labrador dog was called N. We also had N brown paint and coloured pencils.

Contrast that with 29yo ds1. We were discussing RA and ds1 reckoned he'd never even heard the word until he was at secondary school.

There's no excuse for RA's behaviour. I was really shocked and appalled.

Something else that maybe shows my age...no one has ever commented on a Mumsnet nickname, W*G. That would have been so incredibly offensive a number of years ago but maybe it's acceptable now or has another meaning today?

YES, sue, I noticed that nickname too and wondered about it.

after my dh got expelled from Kng Edwards school, Oxford, he went to cheny (sp) grammar. Ron Atkinson's son, Damien, was in his class. dh got into a fight with him which culmiated in dh throwing a chair at him. That helped get him expelled again and so he joined the navy....

I noticed that mumsnet nickname too, but thought it would be rude to voice my opinion. (It was one of my bugbears at school).I have enough problems without falling out with mumsnetters.

Droile, regarding the use of spastic and spaz, it's still used. It's heard quite a bit in films coming from the States, and I wrote to Richard Curtis about his use of it in the film Love Actually. Dh has heard it while out and about as well. I am of the opinion that it's wrong to be derogatory about anyone on the basis of something they can do nothing about, like colour, race,disfigurement, disability etc. Even as a child I knew these terms were offensive, wrong and hurtful.

I seem to vaguely remember Wog posting why she/he has that name quite a while ago, though couldn't tell you where the thread was (and too lazy to search).

Has Richard replied yet, Lou33?

Droile: yes, he wrote to a few MN-ers who complained, offering an unreserved apology, I think...can't remember what the thread was called....

From the Graun today:

My dad sometimes still says things like "Play the white man darkie...." It really gets up my goat, but I've been here with them before and it ends up in a huge, huge row,so now I just ignore it. It must (I hope) be a generational thing.

My parents used to be very, very left wing.....not so sure these days.

Am reminded of line from Father Ted when hes faced with the room full of Nazi memorabilia "It really must be true you get more right wing as you get older..........."

Looks like Ron Atkinson has shown his racist credentials again. The man is starting to remind me of Prince Philip...

i feel sad that he made those remarks because he sees it as normal - he genuinly thinks its ok.

I only vaguely remembered posting on this thread but there I am at the beginning: and I stand by what I said then. I think his racism is so ingrained that he is unable to even understand why others would question his comments.

He was on a documentary on TV recently - on a tour of the States - where he seemed genuinely flabbergasted that people were ringing up when he was on radio shows to say "good on you, Ron, you are so right about those n" . I think he thought they had wanted him to go and talk about football - but the only reason they were interested in him was because of his racist comments. He really couldn't seem to grasp that neo-Nazis and Ku Klux Klan types in the States view him as "one of them". Basically, I reckon he's thick as two short planks and should be allowed to disappear into obscurity.

blimey moo you are up late

I am cross at dh and so I am not going to bed.

ooh msn then

I'm there