"Nurseries 'pose risk to children'" - please, this isn't to be a ranty thread - I just wonder what the answer is

[hunkermunker]

Have you read this article?

There's something wrong with a society that doesn't make it easier for parents (I don't mean both, I mean one or t'other - both would be fab, but even I'm not that impractical!) to be at home with their children for at least the first year of their lives, isn't there?

And yes, I know the Government are bringing in 9m paid mat leave, but in reality, lots of firms will just pay the six weeks 90% of full pay and then £104 a week or whatever it is - and that's not nearly enough for lots of families.

Yes, I also know that people can move house/change jobs/downsize - and some people do all this and it works for them.

But equally, there are people for whom this is utterly impractical.

What's the answer?

I think people putting their babies into ft nursery is a lot more common that people are prepared to admit. I remember having a conversation with my neighbour once about her putting her 4 month old baby into nursery, and her saying "he's such a sociable child, he'st just going to love it there, it's going to do him the world of good". and I was thinking "at 4 months? me thinks not".

And my sister's ds has frequently been sent to nursery when she's had time off work. In fact recently he was out of nursery as the one nearby closed, and she said to me that "he's not sleeping, I think it's because he's not being stimulated enough at home - he needs to go back to nursery".

and christina the ones that go abroad generally put the kids into the kids club from dawn till dusk.

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the thing about "inadequate" nurseries (if I read the article correctly) is about the (potential) lack of continuity of care.=, when caregivers change frequently.
with the best will in the world, it isn't possible to select a nursery to eliminate that problem. because if a child forms an attachment with one caregiver, then the problem arises when that caregiver leaves. which is not directly related to the "quality" of the nursery, though of course rates of pay and standards will help to reduce staff turnover indirectly.
I appreciate there are the same risks with a childminder/nanny, but on a general basis, the risks are lower imo.

"the ones that go abroad generally put the kids into the kids club from dawn till dusk. "

Fact. Next?

"I think he learned a lot there and things that he wouldn't have learned at home"

at 5 months old? at 2, 3 maybe, but I certainly do not believe that a baby is better placed and learns more in an environment where it has to share one 19 year old carer with 2 other babies. I absolutely agree that toddlers can benefit from some time at nursery, but no-one will ever convince me that it is good for a 4/5 month old baby to go into the care of strangers from monday to friday.

Wannabee my friend from antenatal classes said almost the same thing about her ds at three months. I said are you looking forward to getting back to work and she said well I am looking forward to it for ds, because he is a very sociable little boy and he will have lots of fun playing with his friends.
I really cannot get my head around that, as any realistic assessment of the needs and desires of a twelve week old baby.

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Staff changing is indeed a big risk with nurseries. As is having a CM or nanny, after all you don't know when your own circumstances change or the CM's or nanny's. These are indeed risks over and above those of being at home just with mum. I think thought that a child can have its most important attachment with his parents and not be so affected by these other changes. His parents will still be the most important figures (unless they really don't get any time at all).

Christina you are saying that you do not believe that babies go into fulltime nursery, that you do not believe that parents leave them there while they take time off work, when in actual fact there are people on this thread who know people who leave their young babies in a nursery from 8-6 mon-fri, and that some have left them there while taking time off. And I also know one person who made enquiries to see if his 9 month old baby could stay in the cresche all day while he was on holiday because they "are just not used to being with the children so it will be better for the kids to be in the cresche."

no it doesn't happen in all cases, but it certainly is a lot more common that people are perhaps willing to admit.

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Pitchounette, I don't think anyone here is assuming that mums (or dads) want to stay at home with their children. everyone's family backgrond is different. and everyone's circumstances are different.
Cristina, the research is saying that this kind of day care could affect attachment in a detrimental way.

cristina, you might not find it palatable; I guess not from your unwillingness to believe it; but I'm afraid it has happened in my friend's nursery. Obviously it's unusual for parents to do this but as I say - it happens.

In answer to the OP I think the answer is properly funded child benefits or 'credits' so that parents (not just mums) are given a real, workable choice between staying at home, or using whatever form of childcare they choose.

However my personal view is that alongside this ought to be a steering away from nursery provision for young babies. It seems basic common sense and human kindliness in us to recognise that a baby will in all likelihood be happier and more secure with a single carer such as a childminder.

gosh yes, I know lots of people with babies in f/t nursery under one year old. I would say it is very common, very common indeed. it is the only way many people can possibly make ends meet.

and if a 4 month old baby spends most of its waking hours in the care of a nursery staff member, doesn't it follow that that child might form a greater attachment to that person than to the parent who picks the child up at 6, takes it home, baths it and puts it to bed, gets it up again in the morning and takes it back to nursery?

I only said I don't believe it's as wide-spread and extreme as you make it out to be. It's easy to find extreme examples but I thought this thread was going to be a sensible one, w/o sensationalistic generalisations?

Agree, Christina.
Why do I always get the sense that at the core of the matter there is somekind of rivalry between women who work and women who chose not to?

Agree, Christina.
Why do I always get the sense that at the core of the matter there is somekind of rivalry between women who work and women who chose not to?

"Cristina, the research is saying that this kind of day care could affect attachment in a detrimental way."

Which kind of care exactly are we talking about?

There also seems to be too much of an abnegation of parental responsibility now too.

We have the children; we have a duty to care for them.

Pitchounette, I'm not directing this at you because I understand that anyone with PND is obviously going to struggle with it all. But I mean in general life there ought to be more emphasis not on whether parents WANT to go out to work or not; it's not about that in my view. We have made the child, it is our duty and responsiblity to look after them ourselves, unless this is financially impossible.

Duty and responsiblity unfashionable words nowadays.

it's not sensationalist though christina, it's very very common.

in response to the op I think that there should be systems in place to help women who choose to work and women who choose to stay at home. atm all help is given to women who choose to work. if it was up to me, I would allow sahms to give their tax allowance to their dh so that if they chose to stay at home they would still benefit financially.

Franca - i read the same into this again and again. I always start in when discussions start thinking "this time it will be something sensible, surely ppl are bored of the same old WOHM vs SAHM thing" but it always comes back to it.

agree totally sunnysideup.

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"it's not sensationalist though christina, it's very very common"

Well, your friend told you of one child whose family left him at nursery during their holidays. So that makes it very, very common and worth passing on. I have never met anyone doing this. So that makes it very, very rare.