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Original poster

Wearing the veil in the classroom and suspended

77 replies

speedymama · 13/10/2006 17:52

Story here .

The classroom assistant was asked to remove her veil because the children could not understand her and she refused. If I was a parent I would not want a totally veiled person aiding my child. I want my child to see who is suppose to be teaching them. I also don't want someone who looks like something out of a B-list horror movie having any influence over their education (the image shown reminds me of The Thing). I think this woman should learn the word compromise and like the Muslim MP said, there is nothing in Islam that says that she has to be totally covered in the presence of children.

I think Muslims like her are unreasonable and only interested in having their way at all costs. How can you reason with selfish and narrow minded people like that?

OP posts:
edam · 13/10/2006 23:27

Well yes, Becky, that's the whole point. Btw, I wouldn't draw the B-movie analogy either, extreme and a little rude IMO.

edam · 13/10/2006 23:28

Yup, I agree about explaining things to children who may be scared, Ellbell, as I said earlier.

beckybraAAARGHstraps · 13/10/2006 23:29

"But lots of children are scared of people wearing black head to toe, and of veils."

Sorry, I though scariness was one of the issues. It's late. I'm confused.

edam · 13/10/2006 23:35

It was this kind of comment that provoked my post saying people in unfamiliar, black costumes (and people who hide their faces) ARE intrinsically scary until you rationalise it.

"But the black clothes aren't scarey - it's no different from Christian nuns or priests wear, only we don't see so many nuns these days."

Black is a scary colour in our culture, it's the colour of mourning/used to indicate 'baddies' in films etc. etc. etc.

Blu · 13/10/2006 23:37

I agree with Saadia, on both counts.

I find it incomprehensible that a woman should insist on wearing a full veil in front of small children, I understand the educational concerns about her being able to fulfil her job to it's full potential with her face conceealed, and I cannot understand wht Speedymama cannot content herself with addressing the relevant points without recourse to such comments as "looks like something out of a B-list horror movie having any influence over their education (the image shown reminds me of The Thing)".

beckybraAAARGHstraps · 13/10/2006 23:41

Actually the priest/nun comments came after yours I think. I certainly posted mine in response to you. But the colour is an irrelevence here. She would have been suspended if she was dressed head to toe in daffodil yellow, because it is the fact that her face is covered that is the issue here.

edam · 13/10/2006 23:45

Quite, the colour of her clothes are not the reason for the suspension. Was merely commenting on the scariness factor.

Isn't it the case that in Italy it's considered bad luck to see a nun - you have to spit and say something about your mother, IIRC?

nearlythree · 13/10/2006 23:46

But then we are getting into the realms of superstition here, aren't we?

beckybraAAARGHstraps · 13/10/2006 23:48

One MNetter apparently crosses her fingers so the nun can't read her mind. There was a thread the other day...

edam · 13/10/2006 23:49

Yup, just a vaguely interesting (to me) diversion. Thinking about nuns being scary. You'd think Italy was one country where you'd see a lot of nuns around, tbh.

SOULGIRL · 13/10/2006 23:56

If it was written into the terms of her contract that she could not wear the veil in class and she accepted this then she is just trying to make a political point, unfortunately at to the financial detriment of an already overstretched education system and again will stir up antagonism towards other Muslims.

We all have to make concessions to follow our preferred professions be it no piercings, tattoos or spikey coloured hair - if she cannot follow the required dress code for her profession then she is free to choose another!!

Saadia, Fuzzy the "other" veil thread HAD died
(although it seems to have revived) and not everyone reads all threads!!

scarybluealien · 13/10/2006 23:56

PEOPLE like this woman relly anboy me.
she cannot defend her position from an islmic viewpoint.
silly , troublemker.

bewilderbeast · 14/10/2006 01:20

Personally it was the comment about the children being clearly disadvantaged that annoyed me more than anything else on this thread. No offense meant Sorrell, and I'm not looking to start a fight, but just because the children don't speak English as a first language does not mean that they are "clearly disadvantaged." Lots of people don't have English as a first language and only learn english when they get to school, several of my Welsh friends for example only spoke Welsh until they went to school. Likewise my Philippino friends who only spoke Tagalog or Visaya before they went to school. They are not and have not been clearly disadvantaged. In fact their ability to learn and speak two languages simultaneously as young children has, in most of my friends. resulted in a real aptitude for learning other languages now that they are adults.

SOULGHOUL · 14/10/2006 10:49

Surely not speaking the main language of a country is a disadvantage. I certainly would feel disadvantaged if I moved to France or Spain and didnt speak the language!!

bewilderbeast · 14/10/2006 16:59

That isn't what I said. These children are learning English in school. What I am saying is that they are not "clearly disadvantaged" just because they do not speak English as a first language. I appologise if the meaning of my previous post was unclear.

sorrell · 14/10/2006 18:33

Of course they are clearly disadvantaged if they don't speak fluent English in England! You try getting a good job in England without fluent English. Honestly.
Just as I am clearly disadvantaged in Spain because I don't speak Spanish.

sorrell · 14/10/2006 18:35

They cannot even begin to access the blooming curriculum for any other subject unless they speak English fluently either. You may not think that it is a disadvantage, but I do.

Blu · 14/10/2006 18:48

All over the country there will be meetings going to disuss poeple's performance at work, tribunals about people having broken their contracts, union representations about people wanting to do their job in a different way.

Probably SOME TAs, and even teachers will be being sacked for incompetence, gross misconduct, possibly involving things that would make your blood freeze in horror.

And yet we have a whole bloody BBC page about this one woman, and MN threads ad nauseam, just because unlike the other trillion cases up for tribunal, it involves a veil....I am so fed-up with MuslimMania in the press - and on MN.

There's a great quote from a muslim man trying to bring up his 5 boys with love peace and respect - he said it was an Urdu saying, I think - 'If you're strangling a man, why do you ask why his eyes are popping out?'

Piffle · 14/10/2006 18:51

I heard that she agreed to remove the veil except when men were present.
Then contradicted herself when interviewed by saying she wore no veil to her interview which was conducted by a man
So on that basis alone one has to question her argument.

Original poster
speedymama · 14/10/2006 19:45

I would just like to point out that I was vocalising my initial thoughts in writing when I wrote

"I also don't want someone who looks like something out of a B-list horror movie having any influence over their education (the image shown reminds me of The Thing)".

I did not mention anything about her being dressed in black. IMO, when I see people dressed like that they remind me of ghouls. Why can't I express that? If they want to dress like that that is their perogative, just like it is my perogative to express my view as long as I am not being personally offensive. I bet if someone was dressed wearing a belt as a skirt, a see-through blouse with no bra underneath and I called her a tart or loose, very few would object. However, when it comes to Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Sikhs, Jews etc, everybody walks on egg shells. I say what I think and in this day and age of political correctness, I suspect many people now are not use to that kind of forthrightness.

I would also like to point out that I am not racist as implied by some posters. I am just fed up to the back teeth, like a lot of people, by certain sections of society expecting everyone else to capitulate to their every demand. One of my best friends who I have known for over 20 years is a practising Muslim male. He knows that I speak my mind and respects me for it - that is why we have an enduring friendship. Maybe if people were more honest and open in their opinions and feelings, a lot of the misunderstanding and distrust that exists between different communities and cultures would diminish.

OP posts:
SOULGHOUL · 14/10/2006 20:19

Whilst I do not deny the media are encouraging anti-muslim feeling the main cause of it is all the "positive discrimination" which seems to be speciality of this government - most of it initiated by pink skinned public schoolboys.

I wait with baited breath to see what would happen if a white policeman decided he could not work at gay pride as he would feel unable to protect "them"

Piffle · 14/10/2006 20:21

that has happened in the past soulghoul

drosophila · 14/10/2006 20:41

The whole veil thing was being discussed in the Metro the other day and someone mentioned veil fetishism .

SOULGHOUL · 14/10/2006 20:43

LOL Nowt so strange as folk, still think the adult baby one is the weirdest tho!!

hooleymama · 14/10/2006 21:22

soulgirl did you see

this ?