Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
News
Original poster

Wearing the veil in the classroom and suspended

77 replies

speedymama · 13/10/2006 17:52

Story here .

The classroom assistant was asked to remove her veil because the children could not understand her and she refused. If I was a parent I would not want a totally veiled person aiding my child. I want my child to see who is suppose to be teaching them. I also don't want someone who looks like something out of a B-list horror movie having any influence over their education (the image shown reminds me of The Thing). I think this woman should learn the word compromise and like the Muslim MP said, there is nothing in Islam that says that she has to be totally covered in the presence of children.

I think Muslims like her are unreasonable and only interested in having their way at all costs. How can you reason with selfish and narrow minded people like that?

OP posts:
Tortington · 13/10/2006 22:22

mumsnet is comletely baffling at the moment.

i cant believe the OP has gone unchallenged in the main - nowt personal speedymamma -- but some of the language used made me go "WOW - you never just said THAT!"

B-LIST HORROR MOVIE? oy vey.

sorrell · 13/10/2006 22:25

I think it must be very scary for a small child to be taught by someone totally faceless, anonymous and shrouded in black. It is hopeless for teaching too. The CHILDREN complained about her, and they certainly aint all white kids.

Tortington · 13/10/2006 22:28

you dont have to be white to be racist - not that i am suggesting its racist - i am just replying n context to your post.

i am have not stated what i believe yet - just that i think the language used is outstandingly raw. and i find that suprising

Prufrock · 13/10/2006 22:29

But there is a difference between pointing out that it is difficult and innappropritae for a woman in a veil to teach comminuication to kids and comparing taht same woman to "the thing". whilst I agree with speedymamas conclusion I feel it is probably for very different reasons.

beckybraAAARGHstraps · 13/10/2006 22:29

I don't think anyone is arguing about the face being covered. But the dressed in black argument is odd. I was taught by several teachers who were dressed all in black and who wore veils. They were nuns. And the black clothes didn't scare me at all.

sorrell · 13/10/2006 22:30

Well, this sort of totally unreasonable, selfish behaviour really pees people off - including me. It will cost the school a lot of money to defend this action, and that will come out of the money that should be spent on these clearly disadvantaged kids. She is a truly appalling woman.

Tortington · 13/10/2006 22:37

father xmas is a rather odd character if we think about it. yet most school age chioldren understand this oddness in relation to society becuase it has been normalised.

therefore the scarey argument i think is rubbish. children adapt to many situations and as long as it is explained properly which is soemething the school would do then i refute this argument.

however... regarding communication. many partially deaf children attend regular school.

My DD would have enourmous difficulties not being able to lip read.

and we all rely on lipreading quite a lot without realising it. especially if there is a national or regional varience to the accent.

on that point i do not think wearing a veil in shool teaching is appropriate.

nearlythree · 13/10/2006 22:42

I too find teh 'horror film' comments unnecessary. I don't agree with her actions and would want my children to be taught by someone whose face they can see - children rely so much on non-verbal communication. And I need to see people's faces to lipread even though I am not officially hearing-impaired. But the black clothes aren't scarey - it's no different from Christian nuns or priests wear, only we don't see so many nuns these days.

bev1e · 13/10/2006 22:55

My children have been brought up knowing that it is unacceptable to judge a person by their appearance and would get a good telling off if they compared someone to "something out of a B-list horror movie." Your language ridicules what would otherwise have been an interesting debate.

TheDullWitch · 13/10/2006 23:03

Nuns and priests don't conceal their faces.

nearlythree · 13/10/2006 23:05

No, and I said I wouldn't want my children taught by someone whose face was totally veiled. But I have no problem with the rest of her clothes.

beckybraAAARGHstraps · 13/10/2006 23:05

Yes. As I said, I don't think there has been any dissent over the face-covering. Just the dressed all in black is scary argument.

edam · 13/10/2006 23:08

Nuns and priests are scary too, esp. to small children. But not as scary as someone whose face you can't see. Father Christmas is also frightening, and maybe that is partly down to the beard concealing the face. Come on, we've all seen children being carried screaming from the grotto!

Ellbell · 13/10/2006 23:08

Thanks Custy and Nearly3... was starting to think it was just me!

bev1e · 13/10/2006 23:08

I don't think she should be able to wear the veil in class but think the way speedymama put her point across was brutal.

sorrell · 13/10/2006 23:10

'Shrouded' refers to being completely covered and unrecognisable. This IS scary-looking. But of course scariness is the least of the problems here, sadly.

nearlythree · 13/10/2006 23:12

It's way too much of a generalisation to say that nuns and priests are scarey. Some children may be scared of them, some won't, but we aren't demanding that priests remove their hassocks. I was scared of clowns as a child - should we ban them too?

sorrell · 13/10/2006 23:13

who said nuns and priests are scary?
And yes, I would ban people dressed and made up as clowns from teaching in schools. Defintely.

beckybraAAARGHstraps · 13/10/2006 23:14

edam

sorrell · 13/10/2006 23:15

Same goes for gorilla suits. they are really scary.

edam · 13/10/2006 23:16

No, I'm not arguing that priests or nuns should undress! Just pointing out that it was a false analogy. You can't say 'no small child could possibly be scared of of a fully-veiled woman, look, see that nun over there, she's wearing black, you aren't scared of her, are you?' Well, you can, but you'd be nuts because lots of small children are scared of nuns. And Father Christmas. And other people whose faces are concealed. Fine, let's teach them 'that lady's wearing a veil because...', just as you'd explain why a nun dresses strangely, but don't pretend that they couldn't possibly be scared in the first place, it's a very common, human reaction.

sorrell · 13/10/2006 23:20

The whole premise of many horror films is that it is scary when you can't see someone's face.

beckybraAAARGHstraps · 13/10/2006 23:21

But you can't ban people from schools because at first sight they appear scary. You can ask them to remove anything which is preventing them from doing their job. Scariness is not the issue.

beckybraAAARGHstraps · 13/10/2006 23:22

And, again, no-one has yet disagreed about the face-covering.

Ellbell · 13/10/2006 23:23

I didn't say kids couldn't be scared. I said mine weren't (though they were terrified of clowns when smaller... and Father Christmas!). I can see why kids might be scared. That's why it's emphatically not a good idea for teachers to be trying to teach them like that. But, since real people in the real world do choose to dress like that, then I think we should also educate them not to be scared.