Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
News
Original poster

Borat - offensive??

87 replies

niceglasses · 12/10/2006 07:56

My dh is Irish and said if there were a sort of Irish Borat he'd be annoyed too. I really think if there was an English one I wouldn't be. What d'ya think of Borat?

(Sacha Baron Cohen must be loving all this free pub)

OP posts:
caterpiller · 14/10/2006 10:03

Well said frenchconnection. I LOVE him.

Original poster
niceglasses · 14/10/2006 10:07

I must admit I think he is very talented. I think the way he gets pple to somehow let their guard down is fantastic, but there is probably an uncomfortable feeling that goes along with all of it, but hell I do find it funny.

I think what interested me about my dh's comment is that he would be very offended were there to be an Irish Borat. I really don't think I would be, but maybe I was thinking of a British person satirising the British - if it was a non-British, maybe that would be funny. I don't know because there really hasn't been one. Goodness Gracious Me was hilarious when they did the 'Going out for an English' sketch, but thats about all I can think of. I really think I wouldn't be offended cos I think there is so much that is ridiculous about our culture - but you never know.

Father Ted is a great comparison. I think Dermot Morgan had always been an outspoken critic of the Catholic Church, and much of FT is aimed at the Church rather than Ireland per se. I think it was shown in Britain before Ireland gave in to its popularity - but there was still a fuss about it in the Republic.

OP posts:
suejoneziscalmernow · 14/10/2006 10:57

frenchconnection - you might find him "VERY AMUSING" but I don't and never have - thats not PC or even linked to whether I find this particular film offensive or not.

I was not complaining about him, an opinion was asked by the opener and I offered mine. I can only repeat what I said earlier - if he had substituted Pakistan for Kazakhstan and made a film about how bigoted and misogynist and backward they were just for comic effect and then the UK press joined in, I don't think it would be considered acceptable.

I can see that you find him funny probably because kazakhstan is a mythical place to you so you don't even notice it - you think the film is about America. To anyone who is Kazakh or more closely linked to Kazakhstan all they see is a film which portrays their country as being a funny little backward country which is being laughed at on the world stage.

You can say you like the film and find it funny but someone who doesn't agree should "Get a grip" or "chill out and find something else to complain about". Are you saying that I can only complain about something you think is appropriate?!

As someone said - I would love to believe that people can tell the difference between comedy and reality but the reality is that very few people know much abut Kazakhstan - how do they know the protrayal is a combination of truth, fiction and stretched truths? This has been reinforced by the British press writing articles laughing at the "backward" things about kazakhstan. The whole thing makes me feel uncomfortable and if it's OK with you, frenchconnection, I'll stick with being offended.

kittythescarygoblin · 14/10/2006 11:09

Borat's great. Imo anyone who finds piss taking offensive should get a life and worry about important things instead.

suejoneziscalmernow · 14/10/2006 11:09

Ok off to get a life now then...

Tortington · 14/10/2006 11:12

its just not funny. its offensive that something that rubish passes for comedy!

Pruni · 14/10/2006 11:15

Message withdrawn

frenchconnection · 14/10/2006 12:10

oh jesus !! get a sense of humour ffs! he is a very intelligent and talented man, he makes my whole family piss their pants in hysterics! If we cant take the piss then what ARE we allowed to do??

kittythescarygoblin · 14/10/2006 12:12

I'll second that Frenchconnection.

suejoneziscalmernow · 14/10/2006 15:57

you can take the piss as much as you like no one is saying you can't, but I'm not obliged to find something funny just because your family do - what a bizarre attitude.

foxinbubblesletsmaketrouble · 14/10/2006 16:41

Its a thin line isn't it? I have black frineds who find AliG really racist, and Irish friends who find father Ted racist.

I am old enough to remember when Alf Garnet was acceptable humour, as were jokes about spastics etc.

I am Irish and find Irish jokes made by my compatriots hilarious, but jokes implying the Irish are thick, for example are extremely ofensive and racist IMO and stem from a history of racism, oppression and abuse of human rights.

As I say, its a thin line...

Just because one person laughs at another person, doesn't mean the "victim" of the joke has to find it amusing. It all depends on your perspective doesn't it?

steppemum · 14/10/2006 17:40

Hi everyone, I actually live in Kazakhstan, so I see this from a slightly different perspective. Since he started I haven't been back to the UK so I haven't had a chance to see him, so I can't comment on if he if funny or not, BUT

I can find something sidesplittingly funny and still know that it is wrong to laugh at that person or group, I don't think the debate is about whether or not he is funny, but more whether or not what he is doing is acceptable.

Since we started working here, nobody, but nobody could tell you where Kazakhstan was, or anything about it. The same is true of friends from US who work here, no-one at home has ever heard of Kazakhstan. When we tell people about our work we start with a map and explain where we are and people can remember the name for all of 5 minutes and then they refer to you as the people who work in Kazatijackistan. Since Borat everyone has heard of it and they all (even if they don't realise it) now have an imprinted idea of what Kazakhstan is about. Mention Britain anywhere in the world and people have heard if it from many sources, so one comedian won't make much difference. Mention Kazkahstan and they think of Borat, or nothing.

I love comedy, so do the Kazakhs, they have many TV shows taking the mickey out of themselves, their country and all that is right or wrong with it. In the UK I love watching a Brit having a go at us, and getting it right, it is hysterical. The point is it is one thing to laugh at yourselves and another to destroy the public face of someone else's country.

That sounds a bit pompous. It isn't meant to be, just very sad that Borat is all the face of Kazakhstan that most people will see.

And yes it is a developing country and at times people are so backward it takes your breathe away and at the same time it is 21st century and has some of the biggest oil deposits in the world and an economy that is in overdrive.

And by the way the national dish isn't sheep's head. It is Bishbarmak, which is a huge plate of flat noodles with meat and potatoes on the top. Drunk with tea.

steppemum · 14/10/2006 18:12

eaten with tea even....

Original poster
niceglasses · 14/10/2006 18:16

I liked your post Steppemum:

I can find something sidesplittingly funny and still know that it is wrong to laugh at that person or group, I don't think the debate is about whether or not he is funny, but more whether or not what he is doing is acceptable.

Think this is spot on!

OP posts:
kittylette · 14/10/2006 19:22

hes absolutly hilarious!!
i love him!

stop being so bloody 'pc' - its comedy!! to be taken light heartedly!

i certainly cant thin of 1 single joke that doesnt offend someone!!

foxinbubblesletsmaketrouble · 14/10/2006 19:34

Good points Steppenmum

kittythescarygoblin · 14/10/2006 20:47

The whole point of a joke, any joke is that something or someone has to be the butt of it????

chestnutter · 14/10/2006 21:07

Kitty I think you're right about that ... like Catherine Tate making fun of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder in her new trailer? ("Log on to www.christIlefttheironon/noididn't/yesidid.co.uk") Absolutely hilarious, genius comedy.

kittythescarygoblin · 14/10/2006 21:12

I heard red heads complained that catherine Tate was taking the piss out of them She had to point out that she had red hair. Sometimes I really think that people are just waiting to be offended and if they can't be offended personally then they'll be offended on some else's behalf

foxinbubblesletsmaketrouble · 15/10/2006 09:41

Hey Kitty - careful what you say about red-heads!

I think the thing that often differentiates funny from offensive is whether there's any malice involved.

TBH I haven't seen the Kazachstan film, but I read about it in the Daily Mail (which DH "found on a train" I'd like to add ). The Daily Mail article really made me cross, as it was very disparaging of a country and I find the DM very xenophobic anyway.

Who's seen the Borat sketch?

kittythescarygoblin · 15/10/2006 09:56

Fox, I have my mousy hair dyed red !!
I think with Borat, he's actually taking the piss out of the people he interviews not out of people from Kazachstan. It's the same with all Sasha B-C sketches.

Monkeytrousers · 15/10/2006 16:39

I think he's funny but more importantly it's cultural satire at its best.

It is excrutating though.

Monkeytrousers · 15/10/2006 16:48

Judt read your post steppemum.

I can see how it can be consrtrued as ridicuking Kazakhstan but I don't think that is his intention. I think he chose Kazakhstan precisely because of its reletive anominity in the world, and to all intents and purposes he isn't even trying to do an impresonation of a Kazakhstani or represent their real culture, he's playing an innocent abroad and this allows him to delve into some very dangerous territory with regards to racism.

Sometimes I think he does step over a line, but not often, and think in time he will come be be seen as one of the great satirists of our age, along with Chris Morris and to a lesser extent Ricky Gervais.

BTW, does anyone know if he is related to Simon Baron Cohen who studies the causes of autism?

kittythescarygoblin · 15/10/2006 18:45

yes he is, brother I believe

Original poster
niceglasses · 15/10/2006 18:49

Yeah, brother.

I have sometimes wondered if SB Cohen would be excused quite so much if he weren't quite so 'well to do' and so well educated and obviously intelligent.

If he were from the arse end of no-where with not a GCSE to his name would he get away with so much?

OP posts: