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Little boy has been removed from hospital by his parents

886 replies

Itsfab · 29/08/2014 13:42

He is very sick, needs constant treatment. His parents have taken him to France.

I don't understand why the hospital didn't notice or alert the police for 6 hours.

The police won't comment on the parents being Jehovah's Witnesses.

It sounds wrong when the statement said he was removed without consent. The child is theirs, should be allowed to be in charge of him, but of course it is he that will lose his life if not cared for and that isn't in his best interests necessarily.

I hope he is found and can be cured.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 31/08/2014 23:16

This seems such an outrageous abuse of power.
The UK authorities are being vindictive because they are embarrassed.

Parents should be entitled to choose private treatment in an EU hospital if the doctors there agree it is suitable, regardless of whether UK doctors feel offended. Freedom of movement and services is guaranteed within the EU.

Maryz · 31/08/2014 23:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BigChocFrenzy · 31/08/2014 23:23

This case is a gift to every anti-government conspiracy nut.
The authorities should stop digging the hole deeper before more people start wearing tinfoil hats.

AFewFallenLeaves · 31/08/2014 23:26

Have signed petition above. Thanks for putting up link.

Unrealhousewife · 31/08/2014 23:33

Icimoi, from what the father said in the video the doctors told hom that if he did not consent to treatment they would place an EPO on the boy. They threatened him and caused all this mess.

Fortunately the NHS have a big fund for paying out for negligence.

WetAugust · 01/09/2014 00:25

The grandmother has said on Five Live that 2 policemen and a policewoman arrived at her home with a warrant and searched her flat. they came back the following morning to ask her to make a statement. The police knew by that time that the family had crossed the Channel as they had seen CCTV.

It seems that in order to have obtained this extradition order the police must have convinced a magistrate that there was a case go answer and that the DPP would be commencing proceedings against the couple.

This is starting to smell like a case where the authorities don't have the guts to admit they got it wrong and are determined to pursue this to the bitter end. The lawyer on R5 said he could not envisage the police securing a conviction.

At least this whole sorry farce is being played out in full media scrutiny - for the time being.

just what have these parents done to warrant

Being arrested and led around in handcuffs

Denied access to their terminally ill son

kept in custody and denied access to their other children.

It seems the teenage don who has been left to look after his younger siblings has not received any consular support.

Disgusted and much more inclined to believe those other parents who also claim go have been abused by the system.

tiredandsadmum · 01/09/2014 01:02

I am so outraged at this. I am so angry that in our "democratic" country parents don't seem to have the right to make serious decisions concerning their children.

I haven't read all of this thread and only caught the news much earlier today but for the parents to be arrested for extradition!!

I will page back and find this petition.

Icimoi · 01/09/2014 01:08

Ici, for many parents that is not much of a choice - spend £5k to £20k on legal fees and lose against the hospital or take the boy abroad to protect him? Not surprising they took the later choice.

But they're prepared to spend more than that to take him abroad - and removing him from all treatment whilst travelling through France and Spain wasn't protecting him.

And why would they inevitably lose? As has been pointed out, the treatment they want clearly isn't woo, and if they have so much faith in it that they'll take these steps to access it, surely they'd have faith in the court believing them, or indeed persuading the hospital.

Bear in mind that the Official Solicitor would be involved and would get his own reports. If they supported the parents, that would probably resolve the matter.

Relatively few of these cases have actually come to court, particularly since the Human Rights Act. Hospitals are realising, or being forced to realise, that they have to listen to patients and parents. Look at the case of Leah-Beth Richards, for instance.

We're you aware of the Neon Roberts case at all?

Well, yes. That was the case of the mother who opposed radiotherapy for her child but could bring no evidence in support of her views. The child's father agreed with the hospital. He duly received radiotherapy and is apparently now well.

The fact that a mother who had no evidence lost a similar case does not mean that parents who have evidence will do so also.

But all of this is a bit academic given that the hospital was prepared to help this family get a second opinion and seek treatment abroad.

Icimoi · 01/09/2014 01:13

ici you won't see anywhere confirmation of an emergency protection order as they are sought and given in secret. No one is allowed to report on it.

No, people are free to report the fact that a protection order has been made. They just can't report on the details.

Icimoi · 01/09/2014 01:23

Icimoi, from what the father said in the video the doctors told hom that if he did not consent to treatment they would place an EPO on the boy

No, he said the hospital told him that they would get an EPO if he even looked for a second opinion.

Again, the hospital has said it was happy for the parents to get a second opinion and to help them access alternative treatment.

I completely agree that there's a lot around this case that needs explaining, but we're not doing anyone any favours accepting the parents' case regardless of any problems around it and forgetting that we've only heard one side of the story.

And I agree fully that that child should be with his parents now. But that is apparently a decision of the Spanish courts.

MiscellaneousAssortment · 01/09/2014 02:12

It's disgusting and a clear abuse of power. Absolutely foul.

I can well believe that a hospital would do this - I've had experience of the god-like power of doctors which a whole trust put themselves behind as a doctor could never do or say anything wrong... Even in clear breach of their rules and actual laws. The ironic thing about my experience was that the actual doctor hadn't in fact made the decision, and when I finally managed to get in direct contact with him, he supported me! The whole very serious affair had been created based on what the trust 'thought' the consultant would agree and then used his name in vain to back it up. Everyone I spoke to wholeheartedly believed that I had no choice but to go alot with it and that everyone had to agree because 'doctor says so'. Weird circular logic that shows how internally the power bases operate in that trust, and how indoctrinated the staff were.

So yes, I do believe the fathers story far more readily than some cobbled together lies from a source that clearly lied to garner police and media support.

I can completely believe doctors and hospitals pressuring the parents and saying they'd take them to court and they will win... And distressed and panicking parents believing them.

Unrealhousewife · 01/09/2014 02:13

So threatening an EPO for seeking a second opinion is ok? If there is no alternative treatment available, and there wasn't, then the doctor is making it impossible for the father to refuse consent with their threat of no second opinion.

If the hospitals had been so reasonable and flexible about treatment why would this man risk everything he has to seek treatment elsewhere?

Hakluyt · 01/09/2014 06:46

"So threatening an EPO for seeking a second opinion is ok?"

No of course it isn't.

Greengrow · 01/09/2014 07:52

(Just for the record the Ic. quote above suggests I said "We're you aware of the Neon Roberts case at all?" That must have been said by someone else although it is reproduced as if I had said it in the quote section above).

MyFairyKing · 01/09/2014 07:56

Protection and care orders should never be used as threats. It makes my blood boil.

All I can think about when I hear about this on the news is that a very poorly little boy is all alone without his mummy, daddy and siblings. I don't know or even care what his parents did, he should not be alone with any family. :(

Icimoi · 01/09/2014 07:57

So threatening an EPO for seeking a second opinion is ok?"^

No of course it isn't.

Precisely. But do we seriously think it actually happened? Patients seek second opinions every day, doctors would know full well that anyone would be aware that it's a totally empty threat.

And the hospital has put it on record that it had and has no problem with a second opinion being sought.

chocolatespiders · 01/09/2014 08:17

Petition signed ... Really feel for this family and feel thee actions by police are not putting the poorly boy first.

MerryMarigold · 01/09/2014 08:32

Will someone not think of the children involved in all of this? I do not often want to sign off 'Outraged of London', but that is how I feel in this case.

Somebody in authority with an ounce of compassion needs to start dealing with this. I can only imagine the politics involved at this stage though.

MerryMarigold · 01/09/2014 08:35

In terms of the second opinion thing, please correct me, but as I understood it I think the hospital said THEY offered a second opinion (from someone who agreed, no doubt), not that the family could ask the second opinion from anyone they wanted.

rainbowinmyroom · 01/09/2014 08:49

Knee, they know damn well they cannot get it all out because they can't see it, hence, the need for further treatment.

maccie · 01/09/2014 08:54

That's the thing ici. Yes we do believe it happened. We do believe this dad. The hospital have already given us reason to doubt them due to the way they misled everyone about the danger to ashya from the feeding machine.

The dad states he asked about the proton beam treatment and was told it was unsuitable. He then went directly to the hospitals that would offer this treatment and they said it could be beneficial but they needed his MRI's and notes. The dad wrote a letter that ashya's consultant still hasn't responded to. That does not seem like they are cooperating with allowing the family to look at alternatives for themselves. What the hospital are saying right now is not backed up by there previous behaviour. Have they any proof the were actively helping the family explore this route ? Or helping them see if it was available on the nhs ? If they had done anything at all to facilitate this they would surely have proof.

The family left when they felt they had to try this route alone. They committed no crime by doing this. They did not require anyone's consent to remove their child from hospital. They had met all of ashya's needs so there is no reason to persue neglect charges.

This is just purely vindictive as far as I am concerned.

PandasRock · 01/09/2014 08:58

I can well believe a hospital would threaten an EPO inappropriatly.

I was treated as though I were a criminal, and putting my child's life and health at risk when I queried her consultant when she was a baby.

He disagreed with my proposed course of action, and repeated tests twice to try to get results which fit his idea of what was wrong/what he could do. The second time the repeat results came back, he refused to share them with me (because it would be more proof that my explanation was viable), and claimed that I wouldn't understand them anyway even if he did.

He wrote completely untrue things in my daughter's notes, and threatened to sign her off and out of healthcare completely if I did not listen to him (and presumably follow his advice to the letter - if I had done so, given the test results, dd2 would almost certainly have come to harm).

Luckily none of this was over a life or death situation, bit if it can happen over run of the mill stuff, then I have no problem imagining it can happen over serious issues.

This whole story has been very odd. The initial reasons for the search were so clearly bollocks (the need for 'medical training' for feeding the boy, for example, or the battery issue) and there has never been even a half convincing argument presented for the arrest warrant either - everyone is hiding behind someone else's decision on that. The UK police said they found it hard to see what they would be charged with shortly after the warrant was issued. The Spanish police are saying they are just following orders (ie the international arrest warrant) so not their fault or problem.

None of it adds up. It is quite literally beyond belief.

AFewFallenLeaves · 01/09/2014 09:18

Just bumping to say there is a petition link above.

potbellyroast · 01/09/2014 09:46

Why has no one from the government or the opposition made any comment on this huge news story. It's not like them - they usually love to jump on anything with good public interest.