Child neglect to blame for bad baby teeth

[springbabydays]

m.bbc.co.uk/news/health-28292448

Ds has recently started to struggle against having his teeth brushed (although he still enjoys chewing his toothbrush). But brush them we do - and give him water to drink and try to keep sweet treats to a minimum.

There is so much information out there that I admit I'm a little shocked at the numbers. I feel so sad for the kids who have to go through this.

Ok what about the beakers with straws in them?

That tommee tippee cup onelittle just linked to is a classic sippy cup isn't it? We've not had any with valves

Wow im not brave enough to give my 5yo a glass never mind my 2yo, they both have plastic camping cups and plates. Even with me saying be gentle would not work on them as I do that with the plastic ones and they still knock them over!

My children have milk with a meal and then water out of a sport bottle available the rest of the day, the same as school. Weak juice is allowed at parties, same as sweets. My dd has egg allergy so we dont have cake, biscuets or pastries in the house so they dont have them.

We use the auqafresh app to time brush teething and make it fun.

I'm regarded as neglectful as my ds has fillings in his baby teeth. He eats a lot of fruit to make up for his lack of carbs which he refuses to eat. Sweets and sugary drinks are strictly rationed.

Dentist gave me completely different advice than the nutritionist we see. Apparently its not ok to snack on fruit because of the acid. Which explains all my fillings too because I was brought up to snack on fruit.

So now I'm stuck between the dentist, the nutritionist and a hungry 4yr old!

We use the aqua fresh app too hope82

Ds1 has a capped tooth covering a decayed area which is like a bloody great badge of shame for me MrsW.

It happens. The important thing is to take on board any advice so that, congenital enamel weaknesses aside, it's a one off.

It was particularly distressing when ds1 went off to school all pleased with his "silver tooth" and came home upset because a girl had told him it was very bad and meant his mummy hadn't looked after his teeth properly . After over a year of 3 monthly appointments however, his teeth are in great shape.

Or for a completely different view of what's to blame for poor oral and dental health, Google the following

Oral Disbiosis and tooth decay

Whole grains cause tooth decay

Vitamin d deficiency and dental carries

Clearly, something is very wrong with people's diets if their teeth and bones are falling to bits (teeth you can see, bones you can't of course!).

There is evidence to suggest that dysbiosis in the gut and oral cavity gives rise to bacteria that are particularly damaging to teeth (without those particular bacteria, dental decay won't happen even if your dental hygiene is awful).

There is evidence to suggest that gut dysbiosis is caused by our very carbohydrate heavy modern diet (especially by the grains that make up a large % of that carbohydrate intake), maybe in conjunction with overuse of antibiotics.

There is evidence to suggest that whole grains, being full of phytic acid and lectins, are actually worse than white flours from the pov that they block the absorption of minerals needed for bone and teeth building, and use up vitamin D stores.

And grains displace more nutritious foods from the diet, which again is contributing to vitamin and mineral deficiencies.

I think there is a lot more going on than parents being neglectful!

I have said my tuppence worth, it's just a starting point for people to read up some alternative explanations about diet and tooth/bone health... I'm not getting into a debate about it (or saying your kids should eat a ton of sugar and never brush their teeth!). I just think the causes are a lot more complex than what is being suggested.

I wonder what we used to drink from when we were small kids? I'll ask my mum

My sisters were given pop, with suger in, as my Father was a delievery driver and took drink to pubs so he got three crates each month as a bouns! They both have no fillings and good teeth but used to play out all day in the summer with no sunblock on. Just sugar filled free ranged children (50 years ago)

Silly question but why is milk from a bottle so bad for teeth, how is it different from a cup?

Also, I'd like one of these experts to come round one evening and brush my 20mths teeth and see how they get on

Milky man, no one said it would be easy! Experts don't just give advice to make parents' lives hell, I promise you

milkyman the difference with a bottle is that the milk is taken over a longer period of time so it bathes the teeth for longer as children get older rather than taking a bottle of milk in 10-15 minutes they are often left with them for ages; milk in a cup is normally drank in a few gulps

the thing with dental decay is frequency matters a lot so 10 smarties in 1 minutes will only cause about 15% of the effect of 10 smarties eaten 1 at a time at 5 minute intervals the same applies to any drink sipped / sucked slowly rather than from open cup

if someone only has 3 meals a day with no snacks they only get 3 oral sugar attacks a day which saliva will neutralise within a hour, however if someone has 3 meals 2 snacks 2 drinks with sugar in and the odd sweet they could be having 7-9 sugar episodes a day and one of them maybe before a the mouth has recovered from the last one so the pH does not make it back to neutral very often quantity does matter but frequency of sugar intake matter more

milk has a natural sugar ( but still a sugar) called lactose it is not quite as bad for teeth as sucrose/glucose and fructose but it will harm them if left in contact for long periods which is why the advice is nothing in a bottle except water over the age of 1

I'm a dentist I know it's hard i have a DD now 4.5 who really dislikes water and always has. if really thirsty she will drink it in medicinal quantities about 5ml at a time but in reality she would rather dehydrate than drink water

portion control of treats is a problem, no-one would give a 2 year old an 8oz steak but they would give them a whole icecream a whole kitkat a whole tube of smarties which is an adult portion a correct toddler child portion is 1/2 of one finger of a kitkat, 1 tablespoon of icecream, 6-7 smarties this amount 2-3 times a week is unlikely to harm but the reality is that many kids this age do not get teeth brushed have 3 adult portions of sweets/cakes etc a day and hence have decay, i do not see kids with decay who truly had a single glass of vimto at a party 3 weeks ago and a mini bag of haribo in party bag

We were given Ribena as a bedtime drink and only cleaned our teeth, once a day before breakfast

I have horrible problems with my teeth, just had my second molar extraction. My brothers teeth are perfect and he didn't clean them at all for most of his teenage years.

We all had what I called fisher seal but have only just realised was really called fissure seal thanks to a thread on MN recently.

DS (1.8) is only given water to drink during the day (in a sippy cup with straw when out or open cup at home) and I am very insistent about brushing. However, he does have a bottle of milk morning and night (because he is a cup-throwing monkey) which is given for a limited time and before brushing. He also has a dummy to get to sleep but spits it out once he's asleep.

As with most things, I try to follow advice as best I can but still make it work for us.

I trained as a children's nurse and there was a daily theatre slot for children who were purely having teeth removed, 20-30 a day, it was like a conveyer belt

There's a huge lack of NHS dental care in the UK, and it's not just the children who are suffering. Sugar is added to a lot of food that you wouldn't expect, and you wouldn't know without reading the ingredients. There are children who have been neglected, but there are children who are well cared for who have to have teeth removed too.

I BF ds until he was 1, then gave him cows milk and watered down juice from a beaker, and taught him to use a straw. His teeth are healthy (touch wood) and haven't needed a filling so far and he's 15. He see's my dentist and I was told that he could only have a check up once a year unless I signed up to a denplan type thing, which I did. A lot of children don't have access to regular dental care, or dental care at all, so I don't think neglect is to blame (unless you say it's neglect via the NHS).

Some types of medication can rot teeth as well. My child has awful teeth problems and has had many removed but we're told its because of drugs he has to take to keep him alive.

None of my other children have any oral problems and I would hate to think anyone classed me as neglectful or that the hospital staff we see regularly for his dental visits were judging us.

It's not always as clear cut as tooth decay = parents fault :-(

I thought 'child neglect' was quite a harsh term to use actually - I view that as not feeding or clothing your child or withholding affection, that sort of thing. I can't believe anyone sensible would knowingly put their children's health at risk like this. There just needs to be clearer and more accessible guidance.

MrsW Your post made me feel quite upset for you, you clearly only ever had the best of intentions.

'Neglect' covers a lot of things. Not taking a sick child to the GP/hospital is neglect - it's a failure to cover a child's basic needs and tooth brushing is one of these. Children in the US die from dental caries as they cause infection (go, Obama care!)

ladysybil it's a bit of a postcode lottery where i am in scotland anyone could get an NHS dentist appointment within a week, access as in provision is not a problem; access in terms of whether the really needy children are taken to dentist is another

I also agree with you about hidden sugars

I do not refer lightly to social work department but the parent of a child in severe pain that fails to bring them to 7 separate emergency appointments over 6 weeks and makes an emergency appointment at 10am and does not turn up at 11 is I'm afraid clearly neglectful, a missed check up appointment though annoying to dentist is not negligent

dragzena obviously in your son's case there is a medical reason for the problem; there are good medical / developmental dental reasons for maybe 5% of children needing extractions with GA, another 5% may have various SN that make dental hygiene and / or treatment virtually impossible in high street dentistry, the rest are just dental decay in normal healthy teeth

That's bad, Teacup It's neglect to leave a child in pain, whether it's from a tooth or because they are unwell. It should be an instinct to protect them and get them help when they are unwell or in pain.

And by the time they're in pain, it's past the point of doing anything but extraction presumably.

Just to say, I was very sceptical about a baby being able to drink out of an open cup, but my Mum taught my eldest at 12 months or so, then I did the same with the next three.

Think about it, people survived for thousands of years without sippy cups or bottles. And I have seen so many sippy cups that are absolute heath hazards, they are very fiddly to get properly clean. Much better to have your child drinking from a simple cup.

Have to say, I used to have to practically put one of my boys in a headlock sometimes to brush his teeth when he was a toddler. They soon give up resisting if you are consistant. My four have 1 filling between them (crumbly enamel on one molar). I have an absolute mouthful from lack of childhood brushing and too many sweets (so obviously have a thing about toothbrushing.).

Some parents never learn. I know this from bitter experience. I had most of my milk teeth removed under gas, horrible. I recently discovered my sister suffered exactly the same thing four years earlier. This was bad enough but I found my parents giving my niece chocolate buttons to suck in bed "to help her sleep". I went ballistic. The fear of dentists has never gone.
I doubt my parents were different to many now, although neglect is probably accurate it really is ignorance of exactly how vulnerable our teeth are. I had no idea how to clean mine properly until I was in my late teens and by that time it was really too late for most of them.
Although I'm really rather bitter about the whole mess I'm much sadder that over fifty years later children are still suffering in the same way.