gang raped and hung from a tree- Boycott India as a holiday destination

[doziedoozie]

I know there is a thread about this but 'girls raped and murdered' is not the same.

I can't believe there isn't more response on MN about this horror.

A 14 and 15 year old whose father, from the sound of it, was mocked by police and locals when he wanted help to find his daughter. Absolutely disgusting.

Yet westerners happily tootle off to admire the sights and lounge on the beaches when this is what is going on in the background.

If we all boycotted the tourist destinations in India and hit their pockets they might actually do something about it.

Animation. I mean the caste system is entrenched. Also, attitudes to women[of less worth/value] are entrenched.

Dubai is different because it is totally dependent on foreigners. Same with tourist spots like Sharm el Sheikh. Let me give you a good example. In 1998 after India carried out nuclear tests the. United States imposed massive punitive sanctions on it, and the rest of the world joined. Nothing happened- India's economy survived and v quietly the sanctions were repealed. What I am saying is that Western tourism makes up such a minuscule portion of India's wealth that there would be no policy change as a result of it. You might even get leaders saying, 'let's keep these Westerners with their views that might corrupt our women, out of the country.' There is a very old and very vibrant feminist movement in India, that does a lot of good work. They are of course always accused of being 'too Western'. Progressive values, secularism, justice etc are not the sole prerogatives of the West BUT in South Asia these often go hand in hand with deep prejudice and deprivation. There is thus no one size fits all answer.

What I am saying is that Western tourism makes up such a minuscule portion of India's wealth that there would be no policy change as a result of it

Well, I accept that as a statement. I assumed it had quite an impact on the economy.

Man I still think my point holds that laws are tweaked to allow or encourage tourism. Of course if you seriously break the law/ offend a member of the ruling family you are in deep doodoo.

They are, but the laws are in place here anywhere. All this is illegal as is taking dowry etc. doesn't stop 300 women a month or something suffering dowry related violence. You need political will along side attitudinal change, there is zero political will here.

I think referring to these women as meat that is hung is yet another insult to them actually. You may not think it is an important line to draw but I do. Especially in cases like this

I read in an article (I think just in the metro?) that after the gang rape with the woman in the bus, a death penalty for gang rape was to be introduced, however one of the top politicians in the country was against it and said he thinks its harsh as "boys will be boys and they make mistakes" - WTAF Anyone who knows more about goings on India confirm if this is accurate reporting?! If so, how will they ever improve women's safety with such fucked up attitudes in power. Makes my blood boil. Those poor girls :(

That face was for nomorequotes.

Manwithnoname, I hear you about the gap years! I've lived in several less developed countries and I truly think, "there, but for the grace of god go I!" I'd really prefer not to have my daughters goofing around, young and naive in some of these places. My husband, who has "travelled" but never lived and worked outside of the EU/NorthAmerica thinks the world is one big playground to be explored and enjoyed. No one is going to listen to me in 10 years time in our house!

Yes. And that is a common attitude across classes and castes.

My v upper middle class parents (both academics) were commiserated on the birth of their second daughter, ie me, by plenty of close family. I, on the other hand, as the mother of a son, am considered 'blessed'.

And if you look at the problem of female foeticide you will see that it is even more prevalent among the urban educated upper middle classes. The more educated people are, the fewer kids they have, and therefore they abort their female foetuses.

It's weird though isn't it, why is a wealth making educated DD a disadvantage.

Though even in the UK the son carries on the family name and the DD adopts it.

ThingsThatShine I read the "boys will be boys" comments too. They were made by Mulayam Singh Yadav.

It is. But parents pay for the wedding and dowry of their DD, even wealthy educated ones. My DH and I were super unusual in that we funded our own wedding. Most people thought we were bonkers. But typically a family with two daughters would incur huge debts for the wedding and in 'setting up' their daughter and son in law- a fully furnished flat, car etc,which is the modern substitute for a dowry these days.

On a lighter note: My dad asked DH what he wanted as dowry (jokingly!) and DH said a new tennis racket because he plays it at a reasonable club level. And so my dad did get him one as a wedding gift. It's a source of family amusement- I keep telling him he could go to jail in India for that racket as dowry is a criminal offence.

And Mulayam's son Akhilesh made a bunch of 'so what's the problem if these girls died?' type comments yesterday.

Do you know on this thread that she's freed!

Great news - read it on the BBC!!

This thread is about the two girls who were raped and killed in India but the news about the Sudanese woman who gave birth in chains in jail is to be freed in a few days time is certainly a welcome bit of light in a pretty dark last few days.

These misogynistic attitudes are perpetuated by the educated classes in India, not just the peasantry. The doctors, for example, who willingly abort hundreds of thousands of female foetuses annually because girls are so hated. They do it for money, and because they believe it's acceptable. The judiciary in India is entirely corrupt, as is the police force. While this is the case, no girl has a chance. Women are doomed.

And whoever said Britain is hardly a beacon of safety for women - don't be so ridiculous. There is no comparison. Would you rather live in the UK or in a country where mothers are encouraged, often forced to abort (in a country where abortion is actually illegal) if they are pregnant with a girl. Don't be so disingenuous.

What is hard to understand is is this behavior eg raping and killing a teenager a fulfilling experience for the perpetrators. If it made them uncomfortable (let alone feel regretful or guilty) would they do it? I suppose it is gratifying because it gives them a feeling of power.
But if they have this power anyway, ie women are lesser beings, do they need to actually do cruel things to prove it?

Education of all might help this.

Doziedoozie - I was wondering about that. How can a man who participates in a gang rape ever be able to enter into a normal loving relationship? He must just see his penis as a weapon!

I will I longer buy anything made there or Pakistan and think we should stop all international aid until this horrific behaviour stops.

I really think the UK is just about the last country in the world that India will take any advice from. We are the hated colonialists after all and everything in India that is wrong is still our fault. Same in most of Africa.

Indian politicians have no personal interest in doing anything about this issue. They only see a downside. Stirring racial tensions and upsetting local power bases. Its all about politics in the end.

Most states in India are run by one or two powerful families.

Not that it was any different 200 years ago in the UK.

Can I say thank you for your excellent posts, Kewrious - especially the ones about deeply entrenched attitudes being very difficult to change, and that any change which does happen must come from within

It's always a difficult one for us in the west; say anything and we're told we're little colonials, showing disrespect (even racism) and meddling with people who don't need our help. Say nothing, and apparently we've got no conscience, "would care more if the victim was white" and don't understand the issues anyway

As you rightly said, there are no easy answers ...