Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
News
Original poster

So making the sign of the cross is automatically "provocative" is it?

101 replies

FluffyCharlotteCorday · 26/08/2006 13:06

Or is it just when you're in the presence of bigoted Scottish football fans?

Can't quite believe this story

OP posts:
Aimsmum · 26/08/2006 18:18

Message withdrawn

LittleSarah · 26/08/2006 18:28

I am a Rangers fan although I am from Edinburgh, my dad was brought up in Ibrox (was raised a Protestant but now atheist)and through him I chose my team.

Sometimes among football fan friends I get bollocked over the religious/political side of my team, bring up orange marches and so forth and I find it so frustrating.

I have absolutely no religious affliations, all I am doing is supporting a football team, for me that is it, but I still get flack about it!

On the issue of provocation scummy and tissy, it was a ridiculous and irresponsible thing to do in the circumstances, although I wish those circumstances did not exist.

harpsichordcarrier · 26/08/2006 18:33

panboy, my darling, you are being wildly over sensitive and dramatic, please calm down. I wasn't accusing you of being sarcastic, I was pointing out that I was being sarcastic.
the thing is though - this kind of penalty must be subject to a objective test of reasonableness.
is it reasonable to be provoked by someone making the sign of the cross?
no.
end of story

SenoraPostrophe · 26/08/2006 18:36

well, no it's not, but according to the news he didn't just make the sign of the cross.

anyway, think they should solve the problem by not having football.

Panboy · 26/08/2006 18:37

Really, harpsi?

VeniVidiVickiQV · 26/08/2006 18:39

Harpsi........should you be here?

Havent you got work to do.....

MaryP0p1 · 26/08/2006 18:40

This arguement seems a bit strange. How could you not know how strained relationships between Catholics and Protestants are in Scotland. The situation has been so for many year. Okay the guy's Polish and Catholic but he knows that action will cause problems. He deserves everything he gets and a bit more because he knows everybody is watching him at that particular moment. Even if he is a very relgiious man he didn't need to do that at that particular moment.

Panboy · 26/08/2006 18:41

Had a belly-full of 'difficulties' in past couple of days.............. really could do without another one.

and no, of course you are right, it is absurd to be offended by someone crossing themselves.

harpsichordcarrier · 26/08/2006 18:45

really really really. no I didn't think you were being sarcastic. I was being sarcastic, as usual.
I thought you hadn' spotted it, hence the chip malfunction comment.
and I was right....
I think it is VITAL to have a test of objective reasonableness. bloody vital

VeniVidiVickiQV · 26/08/2006 18:57

Harpsi, you are being, unusually, a teensy bit snippy? You okay?

Panboy · 26/08/2006 18:58

I see. FOr me, by you not indicating you understood Iwasn't being derogatory either, I took it that you were thinking I had been. Of course I saw the smile as sarcasm, but in a funny way........

may I then retract the over-sensitively-driven rant?

objective reasonableness..one of the basis of law, yes? I agree with you.

UrsulatheSeawitch · 26/08/2006 20:50

Old Firm sectarianism - some history.

maedhbh · 27/08/2006 01:30

am in two minds.. as usual.. but while accepting fact that maybe in circs it could cause trouble - is bannign people from expressing normal part of their religion way to go... so he makes sign of cross, well all fans know.. prob think.. he's catholic playing for celtic anyway,,, so how is him doign that a problem.. dont' know thoug.. just think more we ban things more we move towards kind of ridiculous politically correct kingdom in which no one does anything out of ordinary blandness... but which prob doesn't stop one fight etc..

WideWebWitch · 27/08/2006 06:42

lol at Senora's banning football comment

schneebly · 27/08/2006 07:59

^'The match took place days after an "historic" summit on sectarianism where it was agreed to work on a national plan to tackle the problem.

That event was attended by both Celtic and Rangers, who later in the year launched a project to tackle bigotry and sectarianism in the west of Scotland.'^

I am not against people having freedom of expression with their religion but if Rangers and Celtic are supposed to be helping combat the sectariansim issue in Glasgow this player is not really helping - he must have know that what he did would only fan the flames? He could have done it in the dressing room. Maybe he did it without thinking about the consequences but what other gestures did he make to the crowd I wonder? Of course I think it is ridiculous that the problem exists in the first place but it is a huge problem in Glasgow. Live and let live I say.

purplemonkeydishwasher · 27/08/2006 08:54

Why would crossing himself offend people unless they were bigots?
I'm not jewish, but seeing someone in a yammaca (totally spelling that wrong) doesn't offend me. It's a show of their faith.
And I'm sure if i were to cross myself in front of most people it wouldn't be a problem.
(I swore i wasn't going to post on this thread again!!)

fin54 · 27/08/2006 09:07

I also come from Glasgow and now live in an other part of the UK.
On returning to Glasgow for a week-end break I just cannot believe how much the bigotry situation has increased in the city centre.
Why is it that people from Scotland feel the need to publish their religion?, yes they have Orange Walks etc , but while shopping in a certain part of the city I was shocked to see a shop with ? not one ? but three tri-colour flags flying from the out side of it.
I thought I was in SCOTLAND not Ireland for the week-end.

UnquietDad · 27/08/2006 15:18

Not defending anybody's over-reaction, but there is an interesting blog-piece

here

on what he actually did - written by someone who was AT the game. Has a slightly different emphasis.

Panboy · 27/08/2006 15:52

Indebted, UD.

Pinotmum · 27/08/2006 15:55

Thanks for the link Unquietdad . I went to a catholic school but can't remember sign of the cross being followed by the wankers sign as part of my religiuos instruction . I am married to a Celtic supporter and there is no question the sign of the cross was made as a provocative gesture. You can argue till the cows come home this goal keeper knew what he was doing.

ScummyMummy · 28/08/2006 11:52

Brilliant blog piece, unquiet. Thank you. I really agree and thought it was v balanced. Any opinions on the blog from FCCorday, purplemdw harpsi or others concerned about the quashing of expressions religious faith?

Aimsmum · 28/08/2006 12:20

Message withdrawn

Tanktop · 28/08/2006 12:47

The catholic/protestant divid is alarming obvious in the west coast of Scotland and especially in Glasgow. I was surprised when I moved jobs from Edinburgh to Glasgow to be constantly asked what high school in Edinburgh I had attended. I later found out that this apparently was a polite way of finding out which religion I was. On a more positive note everyone got on really well on regardless.

expatinscotland · 28/08/2006 12:48

I saw this on BBC, but being in Edinburgh, sort of tuned it out . . .

UrsulatheSeawitch · 28/08/2006 22:33

Ok guys, the caution was not for "blessing himself" , are we all clear on that now?

Swipe left for the next trending thread