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Original poster

So making the sign of the cross is automatically "provocative" is it?

101 replies

FluffyCharlotteCorday · 26/08/2006 13:06

Or is it just when you're in the presence of bigoted Scottish football fans?

Can't quite believe this story

OP posts:
UrsulatheSeawitch · 26/08/2006 16:41

Report I read said it caused trouble when he did it at the start of the second half, lil (hi btw ).

Also that it wasn't the only provocative thing he did, but didn't clarify.

Aimsmum · 26/08/2006 16:42

Message withdrawn

UrsulatheSeawitch · 26/08/2006 16:42

Mark Bosnich got in huge trouble for making a Nazi salute to Spurs fans once, sc.

ScummyMummy · 26/08/2006 16:42

not sure lilibet- but this extract from the link seems important to me:

"The decision... in this case was based on an assessment of behaviour, not one single act, which appeared to be directed towards the crowd which was being incited by that behaviour and which caused the police to intervene and calm the crowd."

sounds like they were pretty sure he was behaving like a prat, really.

tissy · 26/08/2006 16:44

the bigots may choose to be offended by a Catholic making the sign of the cross, but the resultant actions, i.e violence, will have far wider implications for everyone there. As has been stated before, tensions at an old firm match are so high, that riots are likely. People in this part of the world have died as a result of sectariansim, and anything that would/ could inflame the situation should be discouraged, IMO.

lilibet · 26/08/2006 16:44

(Hi Ursula, why the name change?)

tissy · 26/08/2006 16:46

exactly, scummy, this bloke wasn't a naive foreigner pitched unknowingly into the game. He knew exactly what he was doing.

ScummyMummy · 26/08/2006 16:46

she can't tell you lil or her post will be deleted!

ScummyMummy · 26/08/2006 16:48

agree tissy.

VeniVidiVickiQV · 26/08/2006 16:48

Surely, he could have done it in the dressing room, if it was to honestly affirm his own faith?

He must have known it might be inflammatory, whether it is right or wrong to be inflammatory in the first place, I guess context does come into it.

It is a sad state of affairs that religion is used in such a manner as to rile up one group against the other.

I shall leave this alone from here on, as this is a subject that I know very little about in all honesty.

tissy · 26/08/2006 16:48
Smile
sorkycake · 26/08/2006 16:49

It's a recipe for disaster UTSW isn't it? Good name btw
These aren't quiet fans enjoying a simple game of football. They'll have been drinking in the pubs beforehand (separate pubs), they're riled up with testosterone in anticipation of the derby and then add to that they can't abide the existence of each other!
It seems fairly innocuous (sp?) but it isn't .
I agree it's about time it was erradicated. If an Israeli team can buy an Arab player then the Old Firm should be able to sort this out....eventually

Tinker · 26/08/2006 16:50

Oh, this is old news! [Smarming emoticon because have just come back from holiday in Scotland]

ScummyMummy · 26/08/2006 16:52

ooo! searched for your name earlier cos have been missing you, tinks. waddya think then? is the guy a twat or a faithful innocent?

Aimsmum · 26/08/2006 16:54

Message withdrawn

UrsulatheSeawitch · 26/08/2006 16:54

The event is old news, but the verdict is new

Tinker · 26/08/2006 16:56

Well, was on his side until read thread. Must admit, hadn't listened to all the details just heard about teh sign of the cross bit and automatically went, "Oo, that's awful!". But, thinking about it, if it was deliberate it was surely provocative. Like the July 12th marches in NI who wanted to march through a Catholic area. Well, yes, in theory, why shouldn't they but we all know why they want to.

Original poster
FluffyCharlotteCorday · 26/08/2006 17:06

But we don't know if he was deliberately being provocative. (But the report about other behaviours does suggest it wasn't just an automatic tic). I've experienced this tension as well, having lived in Liverpool where there used to be these mad marches and also Millwall when it was dangerous to go shopping on a match day (thirty years ago now). They've sorted Millwall out now though, they simply don't permit supporters to be provoked, they arrest them and ban them from matches if they are. That's the way to deal with over-sensitive fans, not kowtow to their bigotry.

Is the story of eggs Benedict being taken off the menu at the Rangers restaurant in the wake of Cardinal Ratzinger taking the papal name Benedict true, or another Urban myth? A Scottish friend of mine assures me it's true, but he's a bit bonkers, so may be wrong. I'd like the defintive version please if anyone's got it!

OP posts:
Aimsmum · 26/08/2006 17:11

Message withdrawn

Original poster
FluffyCharlotteCorday · 26/08/2006 17:12

LOL. I bet Marks and Sparks don't go down well there. (Green writing)

OP posts:
Panboy · 26/08/2006 17:18

Also, it was curious in the summer of 1981 that EVERY big city and some towns experienced inner city riots. Except Glasgow, then one of the poorer cities.

It was posited that this was because Catholics and Protestants would simply not be seen rioting togther....a matter of taste!

Aimsmum · 26/08/2006 17:19

Message withdrawn

Panboy · 26/08/2006 17:21

M&S - not just a matter of the colour, is it??

starshaker · 26/08/2006 17:28

before i start im in no was a bigot. as you will have seen in some of my other threads i hate it with a passion. i was at that game and was right behind the goal where he was. he didnt do it once he did it to annoy the rangers fans. he was sneering at them and kissing his hands and crossing himself AT the fans. thats what caused all this. he did it for a reaction and thats what he got

ScummyMummy · 26/08/2006 18:05

"Even some of the non bigotted spectators (there are lots) would see it as provocative, ime/o."
I was right then cos that's you that is, starshaker!