Missing Malaysia Air plane

[KenAdams]

It's so sad. They still haven't found anything, but thinks it's crashed into the sea.

For anyone that hasn't heard

And I don't think it was checked on this occasion.

The 2 stolen passports bought their tickets at the same time and checked in at the same time and were sitting next to each other - Achy, you think that's 'not statistically significant'? Really?

The passports had been cancelled, & Interpol say the passports would have been picked up as stolen on their database if KL passport control had checked (but apparently few countries do - are they nuts???)

actually the thing about the co-pilot 'mumbling' (though granted he was heard through a lot of static) sort of rang a bell & made me search for something about \link{http://www.aerotoxic.org/news/articles-and-features/pilots-must-learn-smell-toxic-gas/\this} - pilots & toxic gas in planes

but even supposing both pilots were suddenly afflicted by some kind of gas, that still wouldn't account for the plane apparently suddenly breaking up in mid-air

It is likely to mean at there two were engaged on some criminal activity. It does not necessarily mean that the criminal activity was terrorism iron any way related to whatever happened to the plane.

It is worrying that two passports (of different nationalities, at least one of which was properl reported lost/stolen) could be misused in that way, and it is important that the authorities rapidly establish how it was possible and change procedures.

oh, forgot to mention that the two stolen passport passengers were booked on to the same onward flight from Beijing - to Amsterdam. (But maybe that's statistically insignificant too? JUst a series of coincidences...)

This is the quote from Interpol:

'The international police agency says it is of “great concern” that stolen passports were used and that no checks of its database had been made.

'Interpol secretary general Ronald K. Noble said:

'Whilst it is too soon to speculate about any connection between these stolen passports and the missing plane, it is clearly of great concern that any passenger was able to board an international flight using a stolen passport listed in Interpol’s databases

'What is important at the moment is to find out what caused Malaysian Airways flight 370 to go missing, and in this regard Interpol is making all needed resources available to help relevant authorities in Malaysia and elsewhere find out what happened. In the meantime, our thoughts and prayers are with the families, loved ones and friends of the 239 passengers and crew on board.

'This is a situation we had hoped never to see. For years Interpol has asked why should countries wait for a tragedy to put prudent security measures in place at borders and boarding gates,.

'Now, we have a real case where the world is speculating whether the stolen passport holders were terrorists, while Interpol is asking why only a handful of countries worldwide are taking care to make sure that persons possessing stolen passports are not boarding international flights '

I know nothing about what I'm talking about here, but I'm just thinking that the stolen passport people being together isn't necessarily suspicious is it? I'd have found two separate incidents of criminals stealing passports and buying tickets for the same flight more unlikely or suspicious then just two drug smugglers working together.
Whatever happened I just hope for the families sake the plane is found soon. Awful business.

Yes, it could be criminal activity, not terrorist (although from peripheral observation when DD2 watches those border control programmes, proper smugglers don't seem to travel in pairs as a rule)

It does flag up how useless passport control is if they don't do it right

I read somewhere that they have the 2 travellers on CCTV, going through passport control, so with luck they'll be able to identify them

m.economictimes.com/news/international/world-news/chinese-man-believed-aboard-mh370-has-no-departure-record-report/articleshow/31734895.cms

My goodness.....

Sky is showing copies of the check in of the 2 'stolen passport' passengers one was ongoing to. Frankfurt and one copenhagen,

A friend of mine who is currently in Kuala Lumpa (sp) studying, her dad should have been on that flight but missed it by 15 mins he had to catch another one!!

So he must be one of thr 5 whi failed to board

Sky is showing copies of the check in of the 2 'stolen passport' passengers one was ongoing to. Frankfurt and one copenhagen

via Amsterdam, I read somewhere. Will try to find link

'The passengers, using the names Luigi Maraldi and Christian Kozel, bought consecutive tickets on 6 March from China Southern, which had a codeshare agreement for the flight, paying in Thai baht. They were booked together to Beijing, where they would have had a stopover of just over 10 hours before travelling onwards to Amsterdam. "Maraldi" was then booked to fly to Copenhagen while "Kozel" was booked on a flight to Frankfurt.

'Azharuddin Abdul Rahman, Malaysia's civil aviation chief, told a press conference investigators were looking at CCTV footage of the individuals on those passports "from check-in to departure".'

From \link{http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/09/missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-turned-around-search\this Guardian report}

If they were planning to hijack or blow up the plane why would they book tickets to amsterdam? As a red herring? Surely that's a bit OTT? Plenty of people go to Bejing without going anywhere else.

Yes more likely they are just trying to settle in Europe?

I think there are a lot of "interesting" aspects of air travel that are coming out of this particular case. AIUI, both the passengers using the false passports were travelling via Beijing International. (The airport code for that airport is PEK.)

To enter China, a visa is required, and the Chinese authorities are known to be rigorous in checking details; but anyone who is transiting through Beijing to elsewhere can get a simple 72-hour visa, which presumably only allows such passengers to be within a short distance from the airport.

If those two passengers booked on flights via Beijing to European airports, it could well be that they were economic migrants. Immigration control in Australia is rigorous, so maybe that's not the direction to go in. And maybe European immigration assumes that anyone who has gone through Beijing would have been thoroughly checked.

The fake passports could be a red herring in this particular case, but it's illustrating the not-joined-up-thinking that seems to go on globally.

If they were planning to hijack or blow up the plane why would they book tickets to amsterdam? As a red herring?

EU citizens wouldn't need visas.

I suspect whether these are terrorists or not, it is well known that KL airport doesn't do proper passport checks, and were "safe" to take that routing.

xpost alci

Radio 4 were quoting 1 billion unchecked passport boardings per year globally.

maybe European immigration assumes that anyone who has gone through Beijing would have been thoroughly checked

that's an interesting idea, alcibiades (though I hope it's incorrect!)

there are plenty of more direct routes from KL to Amsterdam - some non-stop, some via the middle east or other European cities - I was struggling to think of a reason why anyone would choose to travel via a 10-hour stopover in Beijing, but that might be one

There's something else that's puzzling me, and that's the ACARS. That's an automated system that sends back basic info to the airline company. In the case of Air France 447, that was important in both helping to locate the aircraft and giving some information about what happened. The only thing I can find relevant to the ACARS from this aircraft is that apparently there was nothing unusual. But if they've been able to analyse the ACARS in such a short time, I wonder why they've not been able to confirm/deny a change in direction, or when a sudden loss of signal occurred.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACARS

there was also the sudden drop in altitude of 200m - which doesn't sound a lot by normal standards but was considered worthy of report - where did that come from?

Also just logging on to keep up to date. So sad for all those involved :-(

How can anyone think that 2 people who bought their tickets one after the other, were booked on the same onward flight, and both had stolen passports were NOT suspicious? .

TheOne - I hadn't read anything about a sudden drop in altitude, but that's the problem in not getting official information.

Willow - It's a human thing to want to know why and how. Air travel is incredibly safe, and getting even safer. Which is why we all need to know what went wrong this time.

FabBakerGirl - Of course it's suspicious, but it could be drugs/economic migrants/fugitives from justice. Just because it's suspicious doesn't mean that those two passengers didn't want to arrive alive at their destination.