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Missing Malaysia Air plane

985 replies

KenAdams · 08/03/2014 09:47

It's so sad. They still haven't found anything, but thinks it's crashed into the sea.

For anyone that hasn't heard

OP posts:
meditrina · 14/03/2014 17:19

Even if there were, it wouldn't establish a link to one specific plane. And wouldn't change that the area has been searched and no debris found.

TheOneWithTheNicestSmile · 14/03/2014 17:22

PM is reporting that a satellite ping was picked up in London 5 hours after the last official contact.

TheOneWithTheNicestSmile · 14/03/2014 17:22

(& that it is possible to work out from these pings where it was)

GoldieMumbles · 14/03/2014 17:27

"It's that time of day when we all want goldie back"

Bon soir!

MoreBeta · 14/03/2014 17:28

I used to trade Jet AI fuel in 30 thousand tonne ship loads and it is possible to do that because it is a very standard product and no such thing as Shell or BP 'jet fuel' although both companies and many others do obviously refine and market it. That tanks at airports are filled from various sources and intermingled. It may be the airline fuel contract is with Shell or BP or whoever but it all comes out of the same tank and is the same grade.

There is a jet fuel grade called Jet A that freezes at a slightly higher temperature than Jet A1. Then there is a grade called Jet B that is extremely rarely used and only in extremely cold places.

A slick of jet fuel in the ocean would be pretty hard to identify as coming from any particular plane unless it was a huge amount and obviously coming from nearby wreckage. As a previous poster said planes do dump fuel sometimes.

member · 14/03/2014 17:29

Goldie - hail fellow well met!

GoldieMumbles · 14/03/2014 17:29

I’m not for one instant suggesting that I support this theory at all but let’s explore for a few second all this talk of hijacking.

Why a hijack? Either to ransom the passengers or to use the aeroplane for something else. If for passengers, you could go any old where. If you want to reuse the plane, you need a 6000ft runway, fuel and a hangar big enough for a 777 so that satellites can’t see it.

Why hijack that flight? It departs after midnight from Kuala Lumpur. If you’re planned destination is to the west, you can do the entire flight at night, over water (those of you who have flow to Europe from Asia know that if you leave after midnight you land at, like, 5am. It’s laden with fuel for 7 and a half hours plus all of the reserves, so you have a good 8 hours of fuel on board. Maybe it’s possible that security on a Beijing bound flight isn’t as tight as on a Europe bound flight, though it would be easier to take over the Europe bound flight. Or, for whatever reason, the hijacker would not be allowed to enter Europe so could never board a European flight. Or, if it’s one of the pilots, they simply are never rostered to fly to Europe.

Where could you fly? Assuming you want to take-off again and not just use the hostages, you would need to fly somewhere that is either so poorly defended that they’d never see you landing first thing in the morning or somewhere that is sympathetic to your aims. It needs to be within about 7 hours of KL, bearing in mind you set off initially in the ‘wrong’ direction. It makes it doubly essential to have a hangar because the places that are sympathetic to your aims must also be the ones that the Americans are watching most closely with their satellites! If I were to hazard a guess, I might be aiming for either Yemen or Somalia. Right direction; about the right flying time; no ground-based radar (or not much), 6000ft airfields. I just don’t know whether they have hangars.

Why could it have crashed en-route? Some hijackers aren’t as smart as they think they are – see Ethiopian flight 961 for some dumb hijackers. The assumption could be that the aircraft ran out of fuel. Why would it? Well, those reports of it being at below 30,000ft for a start. A plane can’t fly at 29500ft for as long as it can fly at 35000ft (the air is more dense the lower you get, so you get more air resistance – or ‘drag’ – at lower altitudes, so you either go less far or you burn more fuel for the same distance). A professional pilot wouldn’t have made this mistake.

Why don’t I think this is credible? Well, I don’t know about the hangars for a start. There are elements that only work if it was one of the pilots that took over the plane. There are other elements that only work if someone with some knowledge – but not quite enough - of aeroplanes took over. The ‘big picture’ kind of works but the details don’t quite add up. If a 777 suddenly appeared in the Andamans, surely to God someone would notice it. It’s bigger than some of the islands!

TunipTheUnconquerable · 14/03/2014 17:30

Thanks Beta!

GoldieMumbles · 14/03/2014 17:31

I think I'm going to suggest to our management that we develop a cockpit stimulator though GrinGrinGrin

MyNameIsKenAdams · 14/03/2014 17:33

Goldie is back and better than ever.

your updates are so interesting!

GoldieMumbles · 14/03/2014 17:36

"MoreBeta is there not even small differences in additives between, say, BP and Shell fuel?"

Just to add - this is very tightly controlled. The additives, called 'aromatics' have to be present only in certain, given quantities. They are really only used to prevent engine and fuel tank rubber seals from drying out. The specification from ASTM as to what constitutes Jet A1 is really, really tightly controlled - many lives depend on it.

DoctorTwo · 14/03/2014 17:36

If any of you are on Facebook search for the Going Underground page and read their status update about a patent. Shock

GoldieMumbles · 14/03/2014 17:40

"PM is reporting that a satellite ping was picked up in London 5 hours after the last official contact."

That's barking - the flgiht time from KL to London is 12 and half hours (been there, done that). To be in London 5 hours later, you need a supersonic aircraft with a range of nearly 6000 miles. If anybody knows where I can get one let me know - I'd love one!

Donnadoon · 14/03/2014 17:40

no facebook here...please tell

livingzuid · 14/03/2014 17:41

www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26583342

A ping picked up from a company in London five hours after the flight went missing.

livingzuid · 14/03/2014 17:42

So that might be a bit of confusion on the other website Grin The company according to the BBC is Inmarsat.

And hi Goldie :)

GoldieMumbles · 14/03/2014 17:43

"your updates are so interesting!"

Blush It's my bread and butter. Work isn't talking about anything else!

GoldieMumbles · 14/03/2014 17:45

"However, the BBC understands that a satellite system operated by London-based telecommunications company Inmarsat received an automated signal from flight MH370 at least five hours after the plane was reported lost. "

Inmarsat is BASED in London. The 'ping' didn't come from London.

GoldieMumbles · 14/03/2014 17:45

Sorry - cross post!

NickNacks · 14/03/2014 17:45

Ok so a London based company tracked the ping rather than the Ping being tracked to London.

meditrina · 14/03/2014 17:46

Not wildly clear, but this may well be the same "ping" as mentioned in US reports, in which case, today's update is that the investigation is aware of the report, but it has not (yet?) been able to confirm that the "ping" was indeed from MH370, so all avenues of investigation remain open, and the search area has expanded in a number of directions.

GoldieMumbles · 14/03/2014 17:46

"though it would be easier to take over the Europe bound flight."

I wasn't clear there. I didn't mean the flight would be easier to take over. I meant that if the flight is already going in the direction you want to go in, it would make taking it somewhere west-bound easier.

BumpyGrindy · 14/03/2014 17:52

DoctorTwo What page is that? There are loads with that title?

DowntonTrout · 14/03/2014 17:54

Inmarsat are a satellite communications company.

gindrinker · 14/03/2014 17:59

I was listening to PM too.
Where would five hours take it?
I'm just not buying the hijacking angle. There are just too many holes.

I'm swaying towards the hypoxia theory. Maybe with the pilot slumped on the controls to change course?

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