Clegg vs Farage debate – a one legged bum kicking contest?

[Isitmebut]

Mr Clegg must have had AT LEAST three Weetabix the other day, as he has challenged Mr Farage to an EU debate, which in reality is his opponents one specialist subject.

If the debate covered the spectrum of domestic issues, policies, history of party, history of winning by-elections via protest votes, even a bit of Work Experience running the country – Mr Clegg, if he could get a word in, would IMO be the ring master.

But on the EU, I would compare this mismatching to a lone one-legged man, entering a bum kicking contest, and unfortunately, Mr Farage would have the matching set when it all kicked off.

Personally I believe this country DOES need full disclosure on the all the ins and outs of EU membership, but as we are already ‘in’, the time for that debate is when we GET an EU yes/no referendum - as both Labour and the Lib Dems are ideologically entrenched as ‘(stay) ‘ins’ without a vote - and therefore the only winner will be Ukip getting even more taxpayer expensive MEP’s where they don’t want to be, but cannot do a thing about getting us OUT.

From the worried looks on Obama's and Pope Francis's faces, it wouldn't surprise me if they had tuned in too.

'We didn't even get the option to tune in.'
Of course, they want to keep it quiet from ordinary people, but the Brussels bigwigs were on the blower to minions in Millbank and elsewhere and the minions held up a phone receivers to TV speakers so that the Brussels elite did not miss a word of what was being said in the studios of LBC. They were the first ones to ask about the results of the YouGov polls and the results spoilt their evening and their taxpayer funded slap-up meals and drinks.

'No-one gives a shit about him here.'
They will do after the results of the May Euro elections.

Claig…re your “from the worried looks on Obama's and Pope Francis's faces”, apparently it wasn’t the Farage-Clegg debate, rumour has it that when the Pope bumped into Mr Obama, he told him that he ‘is his greatest fan, and has all his records’ – no wonder they looked uncomfortable.lol

Re your wonderful scenario where the EU Bat-Phone was immediately ringing with the poll results, may I suggest that there are more obvious examples of unrest by ‘the people’ that may be a little more worrisome than a battle within a UK political 2nd division, within the Far Western Province/outpost of the EU?

While UK socialist politicians aspire to the ‘EU Top Table’ and taking the initiative, they’d have more luck finding Merkel’s g-spot, never mind actually bringing anything stimulating to the party - so excuse me for thinking that Merkel’s main EU partner’s CURRENT electoral problems (in a low turnout) is the only thing stopping her sleeping at night.

“France election: National Front gains trigger alarm”
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26715061

“The far-right National Front (FN) party has rattled the French political establishment by making significant gains in local elections.”

“President Francois Hollande's ruling Socialists lost ground overall, as turnout slumped to a record low of 61%.”

At least one Nick sent one of the most powerful lady in France his congratulations.
www.bnp.org.uk/news/nick-griffin-congratulates-marine-le-pen-poll-success

You live a rich fantasy life, claig, don't you? The idea that major politicians have any interest in hearing Farage attempt to debate is hilarious. It's not as if he bothers to do so even in the EU Parliament, despite raking in an awful lot of EU money for being an MEP.

' The idea that major politicians have any interest in hearing Farage attempt to debate is hilarious. '

Don't kid yourself. They all watched because they are terrified that their seats, salaries, perks and expenses are all going to vanish down the plug hole. They know the people have rumbled them and they know that the people stand four-square behind Farage.

They will all be watching next week in utter trepidation, and their masters in Brussels and the global banks will be watching too. Their entire future hangs on Cleggy. He must up his game. They have paid for the best management consultants, spin doctors, public speaking consultants and magicians to try and teach him how to do it. He is currently practising how to pluck a rabbit from a hat, and how to hide cards up his sleeve. Some say he will probably be preparing 18 hours a say until the final day. He mustn't mess it up. This is too serious, their perks are too big to fail.

They will all be tuning in next week, fingers and toes crossed, and we, the public will be watching too. And last but not least, Mother Brown will have prime position at the Bull and the Bush. She wouldn't miss it for the world and the patrons of the Bull and Bush want to hear her verdict.

'major politicians'

It's being "minor" that they are worried about, and it all hangs on Cleggy, and that's precisely why they are chewing their nails. If your future depended on Cleggy, wouldn't you be bricking it too?

Mother Brown has planned a party after the Great Debate - the patrons of the Bull and Bush say it will beat the Millenium do. Celebrations will carry on late into the night. Mother Brown is paying for it. Truckloads of alcohol are already making their way to the Bull and Bush. Everyone's invited. It's going to a be a right old knee's up down at the old Bull and Bush next Wednesday night

Talking about the Ukip and the Old Bull & Bushit by Mr Farage on the EU and the European elections in a few months time, maybe Mr Clegg might mention a few facts that that might actually make a difference re Ukip’s credibility as a political party.

Ukip for all their bluster, they could win every MEP seat in Brussels and neither change a thing a thing for the UK, or bring us out of the EU - so what is the point of Ukip pretending that they can?

Ukip despite being around for 20-years, after numerous plip-plops on important issues, they STILL do not have any firm domestic policies - and therefore could never be trusted no matter what they now decide to promise in the 2015 General Election.

An election in which they need to go from ZERO parliamentary seats, to a majority of 326 seats, to offer the EU Referendum the Conservatives have tried to get through THIS parliament, they’d only need 20 seats more than in 2010.

“Nigel Farage Disowns UKIP Manifesto As 'Drivel'”

“Despite launching the document for the 2010 election, the UKIP leader now says it was "nonsense" and is being re-written.”

news.sky.com/story/1200525/nigel-farage-disowns-ukip-manifesto-as-drivel

Ukip pretends they can bring us out of the EU/stop immigration, they have no domestic policies after 20-years they can prove they stand for - you shouldn't need to be an Einstein to realise that the Monster Raving Looney Party, have more history, more policies and more credibility - in May 2015.

Wow!

Clegg was desperate, terrible performance - patronising, pompous, out of touch and ill-informed. Last week he was close, but this week he was slaughtered.

I think he is actually thick. I can't see him lasting as LibDem leader, he hasn't got the intellectual capacity to handle it.

Guardian poll
Farage 69%, Clegg 27%

Slaughter and well-deserved. Clegg is thick, now there is no doubt about it.
I think he is finished as LibDem leader. He is actually a liability for the party.

Very bad jokes obviously created by Oxbridge spinners, Baronesses, Lords and chums - out of touch and they all fell flat. I'm flabbergasted at how useless and obviously clueless Clegg really must be.

Good on ya Claig.
My heart lifts every time I see you in action.
More please.

Thanks

I watched this second debate and thought it was ‘a game of two halves’, with Farage easily winning the second and had a very strong finish/summary.

In my opinion although both had problems answering the questions directly, Clegg was far worse.

Furthermore Clegg is a perfect example of the pro European’s that mentally (and practically) have signed up to the ‘EU project’, but can only look at the big picture, the means to an integrated European end, so chooses to ignore the daily problems of ‘the people’ getting there.

Farage on the other hand, is v.good at stating the bleedin’ obvious, on issues that worries the ‘the people’ on the sharp end of ‘the project’ accentuated by the worst recession in 80-years; less jobs, homes and public services – which allows him to answer those questions honestly, while Clegg (or any Europhile) can only try to change the subject - which ‘the people’ spot immediately, hence Farage’s lead.

If Clegg could NEVER have answered the peoples fears directly, he should never have challenged Farage and proved that politicians have no answers to negative social issues connected with staying 'in'.

'If Clegg could NEVER have answered the peoples fears directly, he should never have challenged Farage'

Quite. But career politician Clegg and his chums and Oxbridge spin doctors are so contemptuous of the public and the truth that they thought they would be clever enough to fool the British public. They came up short, they're not up to it. Farage exposed them and the huge hole at the centre of their spin. Clegg has basically handed the EU elections to Farage and he may have doomed his own MEPs to wipeout.

Can you image the spinner, Clegg, in the next leadership debates?
"It's about YOU and YOUR jobs"
Pathetic. No one believes him anymore. He has lost all credibility now.

Claig….if Clegg didn’t actually BELIEVE most of what he is saying about membership of the EU he wouldn’t be standing up for it, as he must know there are more votes for the Lib Dems if they were anti or just less vocal. So I reiterate my earlier point, rightly or wrongly, he believes the EU project would be good for the long term future of this country.

As I’m sure you’ve realised, the problem with Conviction Politics, is that it can blind people to ALL the facts, but it doesn’t make them bad people e.g. keep going on about elitist politicians, and worshiping the Ukip privileged son of a stockbroker who was an ex career City oil/metals speculator. lol

A point Clegg does make that I’d like resolved one way or another, is that he is convinced on ‘the threats to millions of UK jobs’ if we leave the EU’ is true, otherwise IMO he wouldn’t keep saying it. Now I know a bit about country economic models, but as I can’t work out myself how real that threat actually is, I’m open to credible research on the subject.

The Conservatives agree with Farage that we need to broaden our trade partners beyond the EU and that is why Cameron early on put his time and weight behind those UK trade delegations to China and India etc.

But we need to know how real the threat to UK jobs would be from an ‘out’ vote in a 2017 referendum, especially if before hand we have NOT been able to build sustainable trade links elsewhere.

'if Clegg didn’t actually BELIEVE most of what he is saying about membership of the EU he wouldn’t be standing up for it'

The man is a puppet, a spinner. He has absolutely no choice. His strings are pulled. Everybody knows that.

'is true, otherwise IMO he wouldn’t keep saying it'

Wake up. He said he believed in no tuition fees. He will do as he is told, his soul has been sold.

'But we need to know how real the threat to UK jobs would be from an ‘out’ vote in a 2017 referendum'

It's not real, just like "we have only 50 days left to save the planet" was not real. Trust the public. They are not stupid. They saw through the spinner and delivered their verdict.

''But we need to know how real the threat to UK jobs would be from an ‘out’ vote in a 2017 referendum'

Listen to Farage. He is not a liar, he is not a spinner, he is not a puppet.
The EU sell us more than we sell them. I think that the UK is Germany's largest export market in Europe.

The same liars who scaremonger over "catastrophic climate change" and refuse to dredge our rivers are behind the lies of "economic catastrophe" if the world's sixth largest economy refuses to have its laws made by Clegg's chums in Brussels, a band of unelected, unaccountable, underwhelming bureaucrats whom no one has ever heard of.

The public said 68% Farage, 27% Clegg.

Do you have as little respect for the public as Clegg has?
Who is right - the people or the puppet?

'the problem with Conviction Politics, is that it can blind people to ALL the facts, but it doesn’t make them bad people'

Conviction politics?
Have you been on the wacky backy?
He said "no tuition fees".
The only conviction he has is to do as he is told.

"bad people"
What is your definition of "bad".
Farage said he was "wilfully lying to the British people"

He is our servant. He is supposed to represent us, not his chums in Europe.

Who is right - the people or the puppet?

I dunno, Claig. Being a right-wing populist, maybe you should investigate what 'the people' have to say about climate change.

ttosca, I believe in public referenda. Let the public decide in a national referendum if the green taxes and windmills are necessary due to the threat of man-made climate change.

Let's also let the public decide in a national referendum if we should stay in Europe.

The spinners and puppets won't let the people speak because they know they will lose and that will displease the puppets' masters.

We are witnessing a sea-change they like of which we have never seen in our lifetimes. The public have rumbled them. Farage said it best

"Join the people's army , let's topple the Establishment that got us into this mess"

Trust the people, not the puppets. Put an end to the spin and lies and free the people.

tosca, you support Left Unity. That is fine. But unfortunately for you, it does not have mass public support. I asked you if Left Unity support proportional representation. Because without it they are betraying their voters and whistling in the wind.

Join the people's army, topple the puppets and bring in proportional repreentation and referenda, and then policies such as nationalisation of railways etc can be put to the public test, and you will find that Left Unity and UKIP voters will be united in ending the lies and spin and letting the people decide their own future rather than having it determined by a bunch of chums from Oxbridge, Eton and Brussels.

Owen Jones calls for a UKIP of the left. It won't workbecause teh public don't want it.

But many UKIP policies are of the left.

UKIP has shaken the Establishment system to the core. The Establishment put out their best man - Cleggy - to defend their position. He was slaughtered. There is panic in the air, the Bullingdon Club has taken a battering, they know the people have rumbled them.

Democracy is a wonder - it delivers the will of the people
Respect the public, respect their choices and vote for proportional representation so that the votes and opinions of every citizen in this land actually count for something.

We may be witnessing the beginning of the end of the LibDems as any sort of force in this country.

Len McCluskey has said he may not fund Labour anymore if they lose the election in 2015. He may even back Left Unity, who knows.

UKIP could even possbly destroy the Conservative party one day.

We are witnessing huge political changes, because the people and Len McCluskey and every cat and dog in this land have had enough of the chums who have created the mess that our country is in.

Was Clegg hoping to reprise the debated before the last election, where "I agree with Nick" was the refrain throughout?

It might have been useful to the LibDems now to be positioned with a leader who seemed to be Mr Reasonable, agreed with by all. Unfortunately, he's failed to pull it off, and I doubt he can get it back.

And under-estimated the public, who (unlike him) could clearly see the difference between admiring Putin as an operator and supporting him (a really bad error, only a couple of weeks after the tributes to Crow and Benn which put that difference all over the press).

But this race is for 3rd serious party in UK: Liberals were overtaken by Social Democrats, who then became LibDems - who next? People are quite fond of Greens locally, but they are nowhere nationally. That leaves BNP as the only other party that people have heard of. Though this new left party might be worth watching - but only likely to gain ground if McCluskey follows through on what he has been saying this week and Unite disavows Labour and seeks a more traditional Left-leaning pro-Union home.