Italian adoption case III

[Juliet123456]

The last thread says all I need to know about those in the system. It also the most legally dangerous thread I have ever seen on mumsnet. I hope someone has been through the posts for libel risk. It also entirely one sided and biased and makes me laugh.

The defensiveness of those involved in this area will hopefully disappear once we have the openness that JH and indeed many others are seeking and obtaining as the judges increasingly accept that it helps everyone to understand what are very difficult decisions - parents, children and lawyers and social workers and expert witnesses in this field.

It will continue to be important always to get to the facts and where possible publish the facts. I continue to believe that almost any of us could have our children removed if the state set its mind to that. If publishing more decisions and giving rights to parents and those involved and the children to write what they like on twitter, facebook and the like and to let parents and children even when separated communicate and talk about any issues they choose will help then let us hope the law continues down that course.

I'm pretty sure I would be unhappy to find my legal representative sharing my confidential tribunal notes with a random bod on the internet.

Maryz - I once had a client who was applying to discharge a placement order on the basis that she had a change of circumstances. I could see the Judge nodding interestedly as she had actually made some pretty impressive changes.

then she asked if she could address the Judge. She took out of her bag a print out of some of the stuff on the FASSIT site and read it out.

Basically her case was that her child should be returned as he had been 'stolen' to 'make money' for the LA.

You could see the light of interest draining out of the Judge's eyes.

Can someone cut and paste and save?

Am massive luddite but can't work out what to do.

John Hemming what were you doing on the 2nd of July this year

In committee room 14 of the house of commons. presumably on tax payer time? Using taxpayer resources?

I've just archived this page.

I wouldn't be surprised if adoptions are "encouraged'. Remember, Britain does not, historically and now have a sane rationale concerning children. Historically, Britain has involved itself with devious tactics to separate children from birth parents for "the greater good". Not so long ago, it was damn near a given that women were expected to give up illegitimate children for adoption. I have a friend The naysayers will say "Yeah, we all have a Friend) who used to work for the local authority social services. She has her first child at the age of fifteen for a boy her age. I'm not sure that the baby had done it's first nappy poo before a busy bollocks social worker was around her hospital bed, in front of my friends parents and baby's father talking about adoption. To his credit, my friend's then fifteen year old "partner" run the social worker with some choice words. I suspect that nowadays,where a lot of people, especially so called professionals cannot take criticism, the social worker would have done her darndest to have broken up the family. Probably by "changing the goalposts" every time the family passed an assessment. It's happened. It happens. The touchiest people I know are teachers and social workers. Two professions where I thought that one has to "have a bit about them".
This is all anecdotal, of course, but I bet that there are a LOT of anecdotals out there, like me, just dying to give answers to a survey, gathering evidence to counter the good social workers that defend their profession even though it is dying on its feet. The profession is busted. That is different from saying that social workers, individually are no good. Too much moral relativity and room for agenda driven narcs (who I personally know have busted home lives) to mash up people's lives. You only need one of these to spoil the work and results of ten good social workers. It doesn't help when the good social workers are too defensive about the crap people (and some are not too intelligent, either) that work amongst them. That doesn't make sense to me when the profession is about people.
If the cap don't fit, don't wear it. Too many people have been failed by the Social Services system in this country. If nobody like having the finger pointed, I suspect that this is the wrong profession to join. Do catering, like me. Hard work, but I don't take the work home with me.

how do you archive a page? (luddite emoticon)

Can someone cut and paste and save?

I have screen shotted the thread on the iPad. It's tiny text but the whole thing once all images get knitted together will be legible and it keeps all comments in context plus it makes it hard to claim any retropective editting went on.

I'm on a mac, and all you do is go to the top, click on file, then 'save as', then choose format 'web archive' - that way you save everything in the original layout, making it much more readable than saving it as text or copying and pasting.

I think it works pretty much the same on a PC too; not sure about iPads etc.

Maybe another reason adoption is preferred to long term foster care, is that it is much better for the children to have that permanency and security. The outcomes for children in care are dire. I'm sure improvements in the system would improve outcomes for these most vulnerable of children. BUT the fact still remains that if a child cannot be cared for by their birth family, adoption has a much higher likelihood of giving them a better outcome in life, than foster care and care homes do

There's quite a number of similarities between that Nottingham case and the way that JH has behaved in relation to the current case, including the way he has behaved on this thread. For example, his continued claims about local authorities dragging babies from their parents' arms in order to meet mythical adoption targets; his claims that respected lawyers instructed by the Official Solicitor either don't know how to do their jobs properly or chose not to due to being part of Social Services' evil plots; and his continued totally false claims that independent experts are paid for by local authorities and are therefore perfectly happy to risk their careers by committing perjury. Plus, of course, the judge asking what on earth he contended was in it for the various lawyers and experts involved to persuade them to take part in is seriously criminal plot, only apparently to get the same nom-answers that we've seen here.

The fact that he persists with this rubbish so many years after it was comprehensively and forensically taken apart by LJ Wall presents a seriously worrying picture.. Either he didn't understand what Wall said or he is in complete denial. Either way he simply cannot be fit to be an MP and really should be kept well away from the unfortunate parents and children whom he is destroying by his "help".

Thanks exexpat - I am on pc and I don't think it is that easy on this. As long as someone has it.

iPads suck sometimes.

I've had to take a squillion screen shots.

Remember he also made a formal complaint against Wall LJ! which I can only assume was dismissed because he never ever refers to the outcome of that either.

Spero - what browser are you using? I just checked on the PC. With firefox it's very similar to the mac - click on file, save as, then it will probably automatically set itself to save as 'web page, complete'. On Chrome: right click, save as, web page. ieExplorer may be less straightforward, but I can't check as we haven't installed it.

(Sorry for computer-related digression, but it's a very useful function to discover)

Is John back from the pub yet?

Either way he simply cannot be fit to be an MP

Well it was a surprise to me that a British MP could leave such a massive papertrail of .. increibly varied and hair rasing stuff said and done, actually including stuff like sharing legal documents in ongoing cases with internet randoms (sorry Spero) and both the liberal party and whoever deals with parlimentary standards seems to have spent years and years taking an "am I bovvered?" stance.

I don't get it.

I know people can catch "Green and Pleasnat Land-itus" once they bog off elsewhere, I'm sure I don't have any special immunity to it, but I did honestly believe that there was some mechanism that held MPs to certain standards and I had rather assumed said standards would be higher than they appear to be.

I want to pinch myself and wake up to discover I was listening to the Ministro di Question Evasion, Gianni Hemmingio, while I was sleeping and it's all been a bad dream

I DO know the writers of those blogs. Birthrights and AIMS are at the very radical end of maternity politics. I don't have a problem with that - I think there is a necessary tension to counterbalance the progressive medicalisation of childbirth - but my word they do have an agenda. I particularly laughed at the idea that all would be A-ok if doctors would just sit patiently beside the woman throughout labour. Like that could or would happen!

Of COURSE professional convenience, risk avoidance, lack of patient-centred care are part of this story. Aren't they always, for all of us? I'm not defending that - I think it is entirely possible that a CS was in this woman's best interests, and entirely possible that it was not, and I would never assume that the final outcome was based on a carefully considered assessment of the totality of her needs. But it sounds like she was treated with the same level of patient-focused care as the rest of us.

Is this thread going to make records? What is the longest thread that's not a "club" type thread?

I'm trying to catch up on this one although it mostly looks like the same things again.

I just want to point out that I am not here posting as a professional or as someone with adoptive children, I'm neither. I'm trying to see things logically and I do know enough about JH to know that you can't believe what he has to say. I say that as a constituent and as someone who has heard far too much of what he gets up to, living in his area as I do. I have heard of him being carried out of courtrooms kicking and screaming and many other stories of him. I have seen that every time he breaks a story the only thing he breaks is the truth. Actually, shatters the truth might be more accurate.

I will never defend Birmingham or any SS. I know too much about them. I agree with those who've spoken about SEN, I know four children living with their grandparents and one of the biggest factors were lies about the SEN child.

I just feel that JH and the problems of SS are two separate issues.

Do any of you know anything about FASSIT.?

I have discovered that one of the co-founder Layton Bevan was in fathers 4 justice and also founded another group P4P (parents for parents?)

Still working my way through the list of important peeps according to them.