Child taken by from womb by forced C/S for social services!

[StarlightMcKenzie]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/10486452/Woman-has-child-taken-from-her-womb-by-social-services.html

Could there ever be a justifiable reason for this?

I've had dealings with 2 separate SSH Departments as the victim of crime - I wouldn't trust them with my dog never mind my family and children.

They were utterly incompetent, failed to fulfill their minimum statutory requirements and in the case of one
SW passed information from my house to the mother of the abuser which was subsequently used by the defence in court because she was incapable of maintaining professional boundaries. It took 2 years to get an apology for this

Both councils SSH departments in their own way were equally incompetent I have no doubt at all once they set on a path they won't budge.

They are a symptom of an under funded service.

This child belongs in her home country - here we have open adoption - this path should at least be open - which it isn't if she is in a different country to her siblings.

fridge,one must consult the nearest relative within reasonable time about an admission
attempts to do so must be documented

Just because someone said the dialed a number and claim there was no answer, then documents it, doesn't mean that actually happened. Going by plebgate these professionals seem to have very poor ability to recollect information, and struggle with factually correct information.

as I said way back of course it's flawed system,as it's staffed by humans and we are flawed at times
There is poor practice,there is good practice,that's the reality.true in all organisations
Some on this thread are preoccupied by poor practice or alleged conspiracies as if it's the norm

In all professions you need to try harder always and if there are a few errors that is something those in the profession regret (and I hope all social worker do too). My solutions including more openness and exhausting every avenue before removing a child and involving the foreign embarssy where it is not a UK national could improve things.

My suggestion avoiding involving social services and the police at all costs is probably sensible advice for many. Keep off their radar. Any of us they could make a case to remove our children -- any of us at all. It is a huge amount of power.

I think it's incredibly difficult.

I see a lot of very poor but well-intentioned decisions being made in the public sector. The situation with Hamzah Khan where children beg for removal and are taken back home is one I've sadly seen a lot of with older children, for example. I've been involved in a number of Safeguarding cases where this has happened.

For the first time in my life, this last year I was a service user in secondary care with a perinatal mh issue. I found it very sobering. There was a significant team miscommunication at one point. Ds2 wasn't thriving and the mh services told community health services my mh was bigger issue. Fine, but they did this without communicating there was actual physical risk to ds2 to me or Dh based on pretty flimsy assessment. When shit hit fan and ds2 was at point of hospitalization having dropped from 91st centile at birth to 0.4 they continued to maintain my anxiety was always a bigger concern and that the failure to thrive was never a risk to my son though community health, GP etc felt it was serious. I watched in meetings as my concerns were ignored, minimised, written off etc and how no one listened to my concerns... until a qualified professional would chime in to give back up and suddenly the same concerns were valid.

I have done a lot of reflection and supervision related to my experience and I say this with no paranoia or harshness and a lot of clarity at this stage. It went to significant review, mistakes were made.

I have seen this on both sides of the table. I've seen mh professionals discount normal anxieties about children with emerging disabilities as 'attachment issues' etc.

No one ever means it. Things can and do snowball within mdts and many of the recent inquiries have indeed found professionals can get caught up in an ''agreed story'' about a family or client based on very flimsy assessment and evidence. It's the nature of an overstretched system. Everyone can be working their arses off and just fail to see the trees for the wood sometimes. It is very far from perfect. Can't comment on this case but I do see very stressed professionals make clumsy mistakes a lot. I daresay I have often been one of them.

Professionals need appropriate caseload sizes, adequate training and supervision and time to breathe within a day. They often don't have this and mistakes will be made.

That is terrifying. So many mums with mh issues post on here and are advised that there will only be help and support from gp etc. This sort of thing is going to scare people off of getting help.

You know dark warnings about avoiding police and social services are alarmist
It falsely creates impression these are organisations to fear and loathe
Most adults will not routinely encounter police and social services in a statutory capacity

Ah, if you have twenty people involved with the Italian Woman, it could go like this.

Panic attack, police are wankers and misinformed MH services, police lies passed on continually through case. Someone in mh team is dodgy uses police lies to make Italian Woman look worse. HV never meets Italian Woman, hears bullshit from other professionals votes to have baby removed. SW meets Italian Woman, thinks she is ok, goes to manager who reads bs tells sw to take baby. Legal at la fed vs, they feed bs to judge...

Vast majority of mental health is managed in community by gp, and cmht
A minority will have an admission,and smaller minority will be detained under MHA
We have a liberal mental health service in uk,and most folk with diagnosis are in community.

Well fridge,I fear given your language and police are wankers,you're not impartial
So there is an inevitability in the what ifs you're proposing given you think it's all bs
I hope people who need support,don't feel frightened or put off accessing service

I managed to get my complaint about SS in our local council before the Chief Exec - I had a meeting with Head of SS, CEO, Head of LEA.

When the Head of SS and I disagreed - she started referring to a Core Assessment (they had never done one, they didn't even complete the initial assessment correctly), when I challenged her - she said she had never seen our file, yet she was quoting it - that is how things escalate - a Head of SS in a meeting with a CEO to deal with a complaint - quoting as fact things that had never happened and which she hadn't even bothered to check.

It's not scaremongering it's the truth. They are incompetent - due to poor staffing levels, high case loads etc.

It's my view they took the easiest (and cheapest) path for them - no doubt liaising with Italy would have been time consuming and costly - probably for a long time.

It's a real shame that there is an inability to discuss mh constructively
You see it's not as easy as staff are wankers,it's all lies and bs
The reality is complex,fast paced and often poorly reported by media

I got an apology in the end from camhs for passing on factually incorrect information to other agencies, fuckers refused to tell other agencies they did it, only me. Same with hospital admitted they did wrong, refused to tell others they passed on bullshit.

If you have perfect health then life is dandy if not, your vulnerable to a fucked up system and human error/dickheads. Yes I have been speaking to government depts about my experiences.

deep glad you have people listening - all I get is "not my department - from cabinet ministers down to local councillors.

When I say talking to gov depts, I should make clear, I got go through complaints process, ombudsmen, then come back to us, we are doing xyz about this issues and xyz about this issue you raised.

I only managed to get apologies by showing them up, I went private and showed them their medical negligence. They had too much of a god complex they refused to accept they were wrong until someone who the government employs to write reports said different, they couldn't argue then, they still wouldn't admit to other agencies they misinformed, they cocked up.

It is important to remember that at least one social worker has been fired because of recommending that a family be reunited. The system is under a lot of pressure to deliver more adoptions. That is mainly achieved by babies not returning to their parents. I have the stats.

It does get out of hand.

Most working in the system know this. It's not all conspiratorial scary claptrap. In the system you just see it's nearly never someone dodgy or about lies... it's generally miscommunication followed by an inability to back down based essentially on abject terror of being deemed incompetent/struck off/losing esteem of colleagues or more often the reality of facing yourself in
the mirror knowing you fucked up someone's life when you were genuinely trying to help.

The system may be ideologically liberal but there's a lot
of fear of fucking up and dire consequences that contribute to obstructive communication on ground.

Scaremongering it may well be but she's got a point about one thing

Give them higher staffing budgets and lower case loads.

I made sure they all looked themselves in the mirror and made sure I told each of them, their and other agencies mess ups. The school were the worst, tried after to ruin my childs life after they were showed up, won't go into details, they never cared about children, the schools behavior was evidence all they cared about was themselves, not the children at all.

The abused me as a vulnerable adult and my children the lot of them in different ways. They ruin lives.

Ok MrHemming

Are you seriously saying that you can produce valid stats regarding children who didn't need to be taken being adopted?

I have stats which demonstrate that as the number of children being adopted goes up the number of children returning to their parents goes down.

This was actually predicted by BASW.

I have also stats to demonstrate the number of children placed for adoption and still languishing in care without being adopted. AKa statutory orphans.

See A&S v Lancashire County Council
www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed98855

FFS I got all excited then,thought you had actual evidence or stats relating to the question I asked.