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why is Grangemouth shutting?

127 replies

giraffesCantGoGuising · 16/10/2013 21:41

Am I missing something? I thought the strike was called off - so why is it in process of shutting down? It has been a long day! I have read the article but am still confused Blush

OP posts:
OldLadyKnowsNothing · 23/10/2013 22:23

Thank you for clearing up that confusion, flatpack. Meanwhile, Unite offers an olive branch...

amicissimma · 23/10/2013 23:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TeacakeEater · 23/10/2013 23:10

amicissimma, I wondered why the union don't keep up to date with the industries they operate in. I've long heard refining was a poor business to be in - especially in Europe. ( Something about petrol companies like BP, when they did the refining, making money from the service station coffee but not the petrol!)

Maybe union is now willing to face reality. But did I see Douglas Fraser asking is it too late? His commentary on BBC Scotland website has been informative.

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 23/10/2013 23:13

You're right that Labour is in opposition, but more than that they hate the SNP, who have a majority Government under a system specifically designed to prevent such a thing. Labour in Scotland feel cheated, because they thought they'd be in charge, and they're pulling all sorts of underhand shit in the Dunfermline by-election (voting tomorrow). Whether they set all this up, I have no idea, but I really hope not.

flatpackhamster · 24/10/2013 11:12

So, where are we up to now?

Union rep who rigged Labour MP selection vote caught performing union work on company time and using company email (when rules are very VERY specific about this) and rightly suspended;

Union, failing to carry out its duty, recognise the misdemeanour and work with company to ensure it doesn't happen again, spits its dummy out and acts like

Company closes down plant, exactly as it said it would, and understandably given immaturity of union;

Union realises it's destroyed hundreds of livelihoods and tries to furiously backpedal in the hope of not looking like a bunch of egotistical pricks.

ClaimedByMe · 24/10/2013 11:17

Dp and his co workers pays into that union every month and they have done nothing to help/protect/reassure the contractors on that site, they have achieved letting them getting paid off and putting their jobs at risk, many many pissed off folk today I imagine on site!

funnyossity · 24/10/2013 12:17

Claimed I'm very sorry for your DP's situation. Unions seem to have a definite hierarchy of people when it comes to choosing whose rights they defend: there was a report lat year on radio 4 about the systematic undermining of women union members' wages in order to prop up the men's wages back in the seventies and eighties. It always seems that some comrades are more equal than others.

I was brought up to support unions by the way and I see unions as a positive force - Germany seems to balance unions and management.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 24/10/2013 12:37

Good article about the whole fiasco:
www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/robin-mcalpine/whats-really-happening-at-grangemouth-and-what-it-tells-us

flatpackhamster · 24/10/2013 12:43

We had that article posted earlier. Its casual glossing over of the abuse by Deans of his position pretty much makes it worthless IMO.

There is a clear rule for union reps. You have union time during which you conduct that business. You use union equipment and email addresses. You do not - EVER - use company equipment to do union business. Everyone knows the rules.

The company was well within their rights to suspend him, and the union was prickish to fail to support the company when their rep dun wrong.

funnyossity · 24/10/2013 12:51

Yes I read that article last time you linked to it. (Well honestly I gave up after I realised just how partisan it was.)

It seems to be all about supporting poor Stevie, but what about wider interests, like the contractors, like a future for an important site? Righteous emotion and groupthink seems to have trumped good sense on the union's part.

Shenanagins · 24/10/2013 13:50

Now that the union has accepted all of the proposals lets hope Ineos change their minds about closing the plant.

FannyFifer · 24/10/2013 13:57

Not the first time Unite's practices have been called into question.

I remember them trying to bully my local MSP to not support Diageo in Leven, the biggest employer in the area.

Think the plant at Kilmarnock closed, but Unite who were not even the main Union in Leven wanted Fife MSP to support Kilmarnock over Leven.

Obviously a Fife MSP has to work for constituents in Fife, that's their job.

"Furious MSP stands by Diageo decision ...from the Courier

By Steve Bargeton, political editor

A FURIOUS MSP last night warned a “bully-boy” trade union leader that she will not be intimidated over her stance on drinks giant Diageo’s restructuring plans.

John Quigley, regional secretary of Scotland’s biggest union, Unite, has publicly “denounced” Central Fife MSP Tricia Marwick for backing plans to invest £86 million in Leven in her constituency with the creation of 400 new jobs.

Unite is campaigning to retain 900 jobs at its plants in Kilmarnock and Glasgow, both of which will close under Diageo’s plans.

Last week the union asked all MSPs to reject Diageo’s offers of hospitality at the Johnnie Walker classic golf tournament in Gleneagles.

Mr Quigley accused Mrs Marwick of “supping at Diageo’s table while workers fear for their future” for accepting their invitation to attend the tournament.

In a statement on the Unite website Mr Quigley said, “We have made every effort to work with MSPs and party leaders at Edinburgh to make sure they are in full possession of the facts on this issue, and that they understand that Diageo’s plans will attack jobs and conditions across all its Scottish plants—Leven included.

“Our aim is to stop this travesty from happening, and to date the cross-party response has been strong and impressive— so for Ms Marwick to then break away from this is yet a further betrayal of Diageo’s Scottish workforce.

“By supping at Diageo’s table while workers fear for their future, Ms Marwick does no favours to the workers—including those in her own constituency.

“There is a better way forward on this, which is why we urge her now to uphold her own party’s line and work with all the community partners to put a halt to Diageo’s plans.”

However, last night Mrs Marwick hit back, and in a letter she said she would not be coerced by Mr Quigley or his union.

“Let me make it clear that I will not be blackmailed or bullied by Unite to act against the interests of my constituents,” she said.

“I have been contacted by Diageo workers and people from Levenmouth, and I know that I represent their views and that Unite do not.

“If Unite wish to publicly denounce me for having the temerity to stand up for my constituency, then so be it.”

In her letter Mrs Marwick noted that Diageo is the largest private-sector employer in the Levenmouth area and has the oldest and largest grain distillery in the world at Cameronbridge and a bottling plant at Banbeath in Leven that employs 500 people.

She reminded him that Diageo’s review concluded the company intends to make a major investment in her constituency.

“It would have been remiss of me not to take the opportunity which was presented at Gleneagles to make the case to senior Diageo management that they should continue that commitment to invest,” Mrs Marwick said.

“While I sympathise with the people of Kilmarnock and Port Dundas, my support is for the people of Levenmouth.”

She concluded her letter by saying, “Despite the hostility directed towards me by Unite let me assure you that if Unite members in Central Fife require my support in the future I will be happy to assist in any way I can.

“They can be confident my support will be as sustained and as determined as it is now to ensure the long-term future of Diageo in Levenmouth.”

MooseBeTimeForSnow · 24/10/2013 14:29

European refining has been in decline for some time. My husband used to work at one of the refineries on the Humber bank which was put up for sale. Too much emphasis on refining petrol, so we produce a surplus which is exported. We don't make enough diesel, so we import.

Companies always seek to maximise output, running machinery at maximum output and not caring for the consequences when repairs and replacement are required.

That's why foreign companies are targeting skilled British workers - to employ them in new refineries and other oil projects where the local skill set just isn't available. That's why we're in Canada.

TeacakeEater · 25/10/2013 11:28

The petrochemicals plant is to stay open with new investment to keep plant viable.

I hope ClaimedByMe's DP will be ok!

ClaimedByMe · 25/10/2013 11:48

Thanks, 140 contractors for the company dp works for got told they had no job yesterday, I hope with todays news they are now getting to keep their jobs!

Shenanagins · 25/10/2013 12:46

Fingers crossed for you claimed .

ClaimedByMe · 25/10/2013 14:47

Thank you!! I have just spoken to dp and he has been told his job is safe and he should be getting loads of overtime too as the plant is powered back up, today I feel like I can breathe.

Thank you for all the good wishes, thoughts and finger crossing!

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 25/10/2013 15:01

Another interesting article here:

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/grangemouth-bailout-ineos-screw-taxpayer-2528931

In short, it looks like Ineos may have been using some creative accounting to make things seem financially a lot worse than they were.

ajandjjmum · 25/10/2013 19:00

Happy for you and your family ClaimedByMe Smile

TeacakeEater · 25/10/2013 19:09

Cheaper to the taxpayer to keep all those jobs both at the plant and in local businesses. The knock on effects on exports and GDP of Ineos closing would have been massive.

Shenanagins · 25/10/2013 20:41

Claimed glad all has worked out.

HoleyGhost · 25/10/2013 21:11

Delighted for you claimed, and all others directly affected

NorthernLurker · 26/10/2013 11:27

Really pleased for you Claimedbyme.

ClaimedByMe · 27/10/2013 07:47

Thank you NorthernLurker

HoleyGhost · 31/10/2013 20:49

So unite were also targeting the homes of managers:
m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24758166