why is Grangemouth shutting?

[giraffesCantGoGuising]

Am I missing something? I thought the strike was called off - so why is it in process of shutting down? It has been a long day! I have read the article but am still confused

when Scotland becomes independent, hopefully we can nationalise fuel and bring the cost of it down...

As usual it's the workers on the shop floor that get shafted the most in these situations. They were right to reject the new terms and conditions of employment that was put down to them. Cost of living is constantly going up, why would they take a pay cut? Some people are not living in the real world (INEOS management for example).

My understanding was that they were not asked to take a pay cut, but no increases until 2016 - plus changes to the final salary pension scheme. But if they voted in favour of the changes, they would be given up to £15K to tide them over.

I suppose it's a case of whether what you're earning now is better than what the option would be if that job is no longer there.

I can't see how anyone can expect any company, nomatter how large, to subsidise a loss-making business to the tune of £10 million per month.

But IrnBru I don't think Unite quite realised how the world is changing.

I agree with your sentiments about the cost of living but the workers would still have had relatively well-paid jobs.

It's a sad day.

I know this is a stupid question but why can't the Scottish government buy the plant? Surely an oil producing country needs a petrochemical plant and refinery?

"but no increases until 2016"

Just a different way of saying 'pay cut', IMO. If you consider the cost of living is constantly rising, then yes, they're taking a pay cut if they'd accepted the offer put down.

"£10 million per month."

Was this figure plucked out of thin air? Looking forward to knowing how that's the case, tbh...I'll get my violin out.

As I heard it on the radio earlier the unrefined crude could be exported from Grangemouth by tanker. It means we'd import more refined products and at the moment that's fine but it could be an issue in the future if supplies became hard to come by. So there may be a long-term fuel security issue.

The union were holding the owners to ransom and the owners called their bluff. It's a disaster for the area. With regards to the pay freeze, most people I know (private sector anyway) haven't had a pay rise for at least five years.

My DH hasn't had a pay rise in 7 years! He's a painter and decorator so at the moment I'm just happy he is in work.

It's not only the direct employees who will suffer but the thousands of sub contractors that work on both sites too.

I was amazed to hear how many were willing to strike over the Deans incident and from then on it has seemed horribly inevitable, like seeing a car crash in slow motion.

very sad so many people are losing their jobs and a terrible way for it to happen.

But they could have accepted the changes to prevent it? The 'shop floor workers' at ineos are very well paid, you only need to look at their cars and houses to see that.

Public sector workers have had a pay freeze for last three years which with cost of living increases is practically a pay cut and most don't earn anywhere near the guys at ineos. Perhaps they should recognise the times we're living in.

I wouldn't wish anyone out of a job but perhaps the workers here have gotten a little greedy with the large shift allowance etc. My dp is public sector and lost all shift allowances and benefits four years ago. bitter as have many other sectors. its unfortunately a sign of the times. Don't get me started on the fat cat boses who are the worst of all in this...

Many of the guys from ineos will be snapped up in minutes from companies in Saudi and Aus who have already held recruitment events in Grangemouth recently. The benefits packages are very lucrative. Its very sad they will need to uproot their families though.

Says in the paper that petrol will go up by 10p a litre due to this!!?

They were also asked to give away their rights to redundancy

The Ineos workers have been (relatively) well paid because they do a skilled job in a less than desirable industry.

Who says the plant was losing £10 million a month? Errrrr the company of course.

And yet they were suddenly willing to invest £300 million?

The company have manipulated this situation to attack their workers and to attack be extension the whole community at Grangemouth. I give the unions credit for refusing to be bullied. What will probably happen now is the plant will be sold to a consortium curiously similar to the current owners who will get it at a knock down price and be able to hire back desperate people at similarly knocked down salaries and conditions because actually they don't want to move to Saudi.

In the 1980s my dad worked for a factory which went through this. The day he waited for the phone to ring and invite him back to work for the new people- and it didn't - stands out in my memory so strongly. I was 10. He was desperately anxious. He was out of work for 9 months then and the thing that kept our family going was that my mum had her own business. My heart goes out the Grangemouth families. They're being royally screwed right now and the Tory government will do nothing for them.

The head ones of Unite will go home to their homes still in a job, yet the workers who chose to believe in them are now facing a very uncertain future.

Bet if you asked the workers now they would rather accept the terms and be in a job.

Well dp has updated his CV and applied for a few jobs since coming home from work, as a contractor its not looking good, his boss is having a meeting with a bigger boss tonight so we will see what happens tomorrow... all this uncertainty is not good for my nerves!

No I don't think the majority would say that. They know that when you give in to keep your job the bosses come back again and again for more. Standing up for themselves is all they can do because giving in is not a long term solution.

Claimes - been there done that with my dad and then twice with dh. The worst time was when the company folded altogether leaving him without any pay let along notice and holiday pay he was due. If the worst happens get him to sign on straight away - that day - so that you can set wheels in motion for that and everything that goes with it - free prescriptions, council tax benefit etc. It's not a lot of fun but it's best done quickly. Dh prevaricated slightly with this and my dad told him to get it done because it opens a lot of doors.

So it is better to stand your ground and loose your job in an area where there isn't a lot of alternative work?

Thanks Northern we worked out that even with 12 years service his redundancy payout out be pants, we have never claimed any benefits, this just seems so unreal!

No it's better to stand your ground and win but you don't know whether you will or not till you try. Don't underestimate the power of that.
In this case I understand that the union made concessions but the company have pushed on. This whole issue started over the treatment of one worker. Whatever you think about the issue there (and I'm more than a but about the Falkirk situation) it is NOT RIGHT for any employer to treat somebody unfairly and Ineos have done that. Protecting your members against that is what the union is there for. It's fundamental. If you believe in that then you have to go in all the way.

"Who says the plant was losing £10 million a month? Errrrr the company of course."

Actually you'll find the figure changes depending on their mood. There are fluctuating figures on the loss. I don't have this to hand, but read it on DH's FB Free Scotland page. No idea how you link it.

"I give the unions credit for refusing to be bullied"

Well said northernlurker.

INEOS are just using the figures as a smokescreen. The company is profitable. Perhaps not as much as they'd like (fat cats) but still could be saved if they tried. F*ck it, it's only peoples' livelihoods as stake...

Those who question the £10 million per month losses - the company has to have accounts which are audited. The figures are not pulled out of thin air.

I rather have the salary I'm currently earning (albeit a reduction in value taking inflation into account) than no salary at all.

I, like many, have seen my income reduced drastically over the past five years - don't love it, but have to accept it.