Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

News

Child marriage

357 replies

FruityPops · 07/10/2013 12:20

Why are so many imams in the UK willing to force fourteen year old girls to marry against their wishes? Don't ordinary muslims know what's going on?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2447720/Clerics-18-mosques-caught-agreeing-marry-girls-14-Four-imams-investigated-undercover-operation.html

OP posts:
FruityPops · 07/10/2013 19:46

Ipanema - your foul mouth and lack of moral compass are probably viewed as admirable traits by your fellow posse members here on mumsnet.

Fortunately, the rest of the UK seems to care about vulnerable children more than you do.

OP posts:
fuzzywuzzy · 07/10/2013 19:51

Pixel were all these girls from Muslim families exclusively?

YouTheCat · 07/10/2013 19:53

And your agenda is vile.

Wannabestepfordwife · 07/10/2013 19:58

fruitypops everyone here is disgusted by forced marriages. As a mother I can't imagine ever wanting to force my daughter into a marriage she didn't want, her happiness means more to me then "honor".

The thing is this isn't a practice of just some people's warped idea of Islam it's also a practice of some Hindus and Sikhs yet as much as I love it the mail does seem to have a very anti-Islam agenda.

I'm sure if they deliberately targeted mosques which are more extreme, for example the heckmondwike mosque is very close to dewsbury where there are some Muslims with extremist views

Pixel · 07/10/2013 19:58

I'm not sure Fuzzywuzzy, I was just quoting the original link, but the website is *www.karmanirvana.org.uk/the-story-of-karma-nirvana.html here]]. I haven't had a chance to read it all yet but it's rather sad that the founder started it after her sister committed suicide to escape an arranged marriage and she didn't want her death to be in vain. Sad

Pixel · 07/10/2013 19:58

Sorry here

friday16 · 07/10/2013 20:05

The founder of Karma Nirvana, Jasvinder Sanghera, was from a Sikh family, not Muslim.

friday16 · 07/10/2013 20:18

As, by the way, about two seconds' thought (-or rather longer for thick as shit racists-) would reveal: Karma and Nirvana both being pretty much the sine qua non of "things that other Indian religions believe in but Islam rejects".

FruityPops · 07/10/2013 20:20

Friday - and yet they still help lots of muslims according to their website.

OP posts:
friday16 · 07/10/2013 20:25

Friday - and yet they still help lots of muslims according to their website.

Do they publish a breakdown? Because a swift Google for "muslim site:.karmanirvana.org.uk" rather implies they don't. Indeed, they're very, very careful to be even-handed and make this a child protection issue, not a religious issue.

But if you've been reading their website, you'll realise you need to spread your blame net wider: fuckwit liberals are just as much a problem.

YouTheCat · 07/10/2013 20:25

They help lots of people, some of them happen to be Muslim, some of them are not.

It doesn't mean that forced child marriages are endemic amongst Muslim people.

SecretWitch · 07/10/2013 20:30

Everyone will agree that terrible child abuse occurs in all nations across the globe. I am thinking specifically of Thailand and the child sex industry. We need to be vigilant in our fight against abuse towards women and children.

Concern thinly and poorly veiled as race baiting will never be tolerated on this board. We have a collective of bright, verbal women and men willing to speak up against such hatred. Go peddle your racism somewhere else.

FruityPops · 07/10/2013 20:40

SecretWitch - What has racism got to do with this thread? It's about some imams in the UK agreeing to force underage girls into marriage.

OP posts:
friday16 · 07/10/2013 20:50

Don't be disingenuous Fruity. What you want to do is imply that every Muslim who isn't vocally condemning child marriage (in the time they have left over from condemning FGM, condemning blowing up Russell Square tube station and all the rest) is somehow complicit in, or at least turning a blind eye to, a shocking crime.

Child marriage is a fringe doctrine amongst the fringiest of the Muslim (and Sikh, and Hindu, and other sub-continent cultural groups) community. The evidence you have for the involvement of imams is sketchy (forced marriage is a criminal offence, and the CPS are slavering at the bit on such cases, so the lack of prosecutions is a case of the gun that didn't smoke) and so far as is known, the main channel for forced marriage is moving children overseas, often in the school holidays. Yes, parents who force their children into marriage are criminal abusers. And Tracey Connelly was a criminal abuser when she killed her son, too, but no-one sane is screaming "we are all guilty" or "white Londoners must all condemn this".

Let's spell this out. To identify something which is associated with a small part of a particular community and then to claim that everyone in that community needs to "take a stand" or "stand up and be counted" or "condemn rather than remain quiet" or whatever, is straightforwardly racist. It's essentialising: it's implying that anyone who is from a similar background has more in common (by virtue of that background) than they have different (through not being a terrorist/child abuser/etc). What next: "should Stevie Wonder condemn knife crime in Newham?"

Wannabestepfordwife · 07/10/2013 20:51

fruitloops I don't think this thread is racist but I do think its faithist (know its not a proper word but it fits) pps keep pointing out this isn't widespread amongst British Muslim communities and it isn't just a custom within some Islamic communities but within other religions as well but you are just not taking on board anyone else's opinion

YouTheCat · 07/10/2013 20:55

True. Islam is not a race.

So it's just bigoted then.

FruityPops · 07/10/2013 20:57

Wannabe - I am listening to what people are saying, and I know that it is not just a problem among some muslim people. But it IS a problem, and it needs dealing with.

As for this thread being faithist, it's the imams in question bringing their religion into disrepute, not me.

OP posts:
YouTheCat · 07/10/2013 20:58

They aren't doing it in the name of religion. It is not part of Islam.

You are wrong. Totally wrong.

FruityPops · 07/10/2013 20:58

YoutheCat - it is better to be falsely accused of bigotry than it is to turn a blind eye to child abuse.

OP posts:
FruityPops · 07/10/2013 21:00

YoutheCat - I think your argument is with the imams in question, and not with me.

OP posts:
YouTheCat · 07/10/2013 21:01

I'm not turning a blind eye to anything. But you are. And you are blaming a religion for it as well - which is totally untrue.

That's bigotry.

FruityPops · 07/10/2013 21:06

YoutheCat - One of the imams in the investigation actually says "We're doing it because it's ok through Islam".

So tell HIM he's wrong. I don't care why he's doing it, I just want him to stop. And that goes for all other people doing it under the guise of other religions too.

OP posts:
YouTheCat · 07/10/2013 21:08

One of the Imams? You do realise that an Imam doesn't have to have any religious training don't you?

friday16 · 07/10/2013 21:11

YoutheCat - One of the imams in the investigation actually says "We're doing it because it's ok through Islam".

Oh FFS. The people that shoot doctors working in abortion clinics claim to be doing God's work. No-one sane blames your local Methodists for it.

gordyslovesheep · 07/10/2013 21:11

so how much time do you dedicate to helping abused women and children - do you give your time free to staff helplines or do you donate time and money to charities supporting women escaping abuse?

or do you just hand around internet forums casually Muslim bashing while refusing to see the bigger picture?