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News

Amanda Hutton found guilty of manslaughter

347 replies

Rowlers · 03/10/2013 17:12

Just that.
I find the photo of that poor little boy very distressing.

OP posts:

Report

Sindarella · 03/10/2013 21:50

He should have done something, all this about him phoning ss an them not doing anything rubbish, if i suspected my dc was being treated like this and no one was listening i would go and take them, i dont care what order was against me. If i got away with it, great, if not at least someone would have to take me seriously.

He is part to blame. But as his main carer, she takes full responsibility. Alcohol is no excuse. She chose to abuse him, she chose to let him die.

handcream · 03/10/2013 21:56

This is clearly a very disfunctional family. FGS - the women had child after child.

I do think though that with the ethnic side of this and also the sheer number of children, that people were loath to report or storm in and get those children out. It is drummed in by many on MumsNet that we must not judge people, 8 children, her choice, not working or clearly has a problem with drink. Still dont judge. House smells to high heaven, maybe she has hoarding issues and it goes on and one. The signs were there

handcream · 03/10/2013 21:59

The house was truly in a shocking state. However there was a hoarding thread recently and when I suggested that some people living in pig stys were doing it by choice I was flamed. I was told that they had mental health issues and I needed to understand them better. Of course there are some people who suffer mentally around throwing things out. However some are lazy, it means no cleaning, no putting out the bins, no people around because your house is a tip, no changing towels and beds.

Chipstick10 · 03/10/2013 22:08

Why do we have social services? Omg how many children are going to be failed.? Agencies, police, doctors they all failed the poor little soul. I could cry. And every time they say " it was wrong, we have learnt lessons" then it happens all over again.

Mintyy · 03/10/2013 22:08

I don't see what "the ethnic side of this" has to do with anything.

handcream · 03/10/2013 22:18

In fact didnt the statement come out today 'saying lessons will be learnt'. It's becoming the 'thing' to say. Problem is that no one believes it!

SinisterBuggyMonth · 03/10/2013 22:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

curlew · 03/10/2013 23:07

"I do think though that with the ethnic side of this"
What does that mean?

curlew · 03/10/2013 23:09

"I have to say I have seen posters saying you dont have to let HV's in or attend GP's appointments"

Absolutely.

northernlurker · 04/10/2013 00:06

You don't hve to let HVs in. You don't have to go and see the GP. But don't complain when you do those things and have them questioned. In a MINORITY of cases the reason for doing that is not parental choice but to cover up wrongdoing. As parents if we want choices about how we bring up our kids we have to accept that those choices will be challenged and questioned and that doing so IS in the interests of all children, however much of a pita it may be at the time.

Re the murder/manslaughter thing. I think that for a charge of murder you have to prove some intent or knowledge by the accused that their actiuons would lead to death. In this case you can argue that though she starved him she didn't intend to kill him. Same with Mick Philpott - although he set fire to the house where his kids were sleeping he didn't intend to kill them. In neither case does the distinction mean much. Children died at the hands of their parents. It's a crime.

wannaBe · 04/10/2013 01:24

"he should have done something." What exactly? There was a restraining order preventing him from coming near the house. For all we know she may have claimed that these were malicious alegations because of their acrimonius split. In fact I would like to bet that she was never a victim of domestic violence at all.

deepfriedsage · 04/10/2013 05:47

Wannabe, maybe she drank to escape memories of abuse she endured and guilt at failing her children?

curlew · 04/10/2013 05:50

" In fact I would like to bet that she was never a victim of domestic violence at all."

Why?

cupcake78 · 04/10/2013 06:21

Wanabe that's an appalling thing to suggest! What she did was horrendous and unimaginable however she most very definitely had issues. Sadly its extremely common for alcohol/drugs/reckless behaviour to be used to hide memories and trauma. Where was the help for her? She was in the system, her dh had a restraining order on him. Who was checking up on her and her other children, obviously no one!

Yes she as his mother is responsible but so is every other adult who suspected/knew and didn't make enough fuss to get something done or report the death.

Those children must have smelt bad, why were they not checked up on at school? The brothers who knew where adults and should have reported it. As for the dad! If I suspected my child was ill/small/mistreated I would move heaven and earth to get someone in that house. He didn't have to go to the house but a few days standing in the police station refusing to move until someone checked should have done it. He is to blame as well! He still saw his son, he could have taken him to the doctors every time he had him until somebody did something. He knew she had a drinking problem and was responsible for children yet let it continue. He should be jailed for child neglect at least.

She is responsible for starving him but everyone else is guilty of allowing it to happen. I genuinely hope she gets the help she needs to realise the full extent of what she's done instead of just getting drunk.

PlatinumStart · 04/10/2013 06:22

The father had been prosecuted for DV and as I understand it was not allowed near the house. In one of the police interviews in relation to his DV he tells the police she is neglecting the child and that someone needs to do something - the tape was played in court and rather chillingly concludes with him saying when this comes out, when you understand what she is doing I will come back and say I told you so.

A female police officer also claims she spent a significant amount of time at the house 8 months before body was found and there was nothing untoward

cupcake78 · 04/10/2013 06:26

And then what did he do? Just give up!

Yes I agree the police have been shockingly bad but the dad should have kept going and going and going until something was done.

meditrina · 04/10/2013 06:44

"And then what did he do? Just give up!"

When no-one believes you, because it's assumed that the accusations are a continuation of the DV/abuse/control, then yes there does come a point where you know you will never be believed.

cupcake78 · 04/10/2013 06:50

So you go to social services and sit there for days. To the school and sit there for days. To the doctors and sit there for days. You go to the local press and report it. You stand on a bench in the middle of town and scream till something is done about it. You get arrested time and time again and each time you insist they do something about it because.

You become the biggest pain in the bum known to mankind until the agencies get so sick of you they have to do something with you.

If its your dc you never never never just give up on them.

cupcake78 · 04/10/2013 06:52

I do realise this shouldn't need to be done but he still held parental responsibility. He knew. He is responsible as well.

meditrina · 04/10/2013 06:55

There were also calls to SS alerting them to the situation of Keanu Williams, which did not lead to action. Not much detail on those as such.

When you are written off as making abusive and malicious accusations, then whereas yes you could carry on, you will make no headway.

cupcake78 · 04/10/2013 07:09

If he was so sure why didn't he go to the house, if he could go upstairs to the baby. Phone the police and say come and arrest me. Im in breech of my restraining order, then I will show you what I'm talking about with regards to my son?

Did he? Not that I'm aware.

meditrina · 04/10/2013 07:15

I think he didn't go to the house because of the restraining order against him. I do not think he knew what was going on, other than things he had heard from others (and it is often hard to get hearsay listened too, even without the background of abuse).

There were however other adults who did have access to the house, and perhaps they should have done more.

Lazyjaney · 04/10/2013 07:26

The thing in common with all these events is the ability of the RP to lead everyone a real dance. Add to that the real issues NRPs have with access if RPs are not co-operative, IMO people here are being far too quick to implicate others and reduce the responsibility of the mother.

JakeBullet · 04/10/2013 07:57

If Amanda Hutton has been drinking every day then she is going to have one hell of a hangover this morning. She was remanded in custody and I can't imagine that vodka was on the menu in the custody suite.

As for the case, sadly it is all too easy to avoid the authorities if you are determined enough. I gather that the Serious Case Review has already been done but not published until all criminal procedures have finished. From what I have read it would appear that this child wasn't known to anybody in an official capacity....or at least not known well enough to raise significant concerns.

Nobody HAS to see a HV, nobody HAS to see a GP. If nobody raises any concerns then that is that. In fact it seems there were some concerns in this case and a community support officer spent months plugging away until the day Amanda Hutton let her in.

duchesse · 04/10/2013 08:21

A female police officer also claims she spent a significant amount of time at the house 8 months before body was found and there was nothing untoward

Maybe this was a situation that needed the fresh, unjaded eyes of a brand new community police officer. I guess police people see so many awful things that a bit of crud on the floor of a family house seems unremarkable.

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