Female chauvinist pigs - do they exist?

[puddle]

Interesting article in the Guardian today about Ariel Levy who has written a book called "Female Chauvinist Pigs: Women and the Rise of Raunch Culture"

"My book is not an attack on the sex industry," says Levy. "It's about how the sex industry has become every industry...."

....as illustrated by for eg with phenomena such as pole dancing, breast implant surgery being routine, the new fashion for brazilians, playboy merchandise being targeted at schoolchildren, Ann Summers on the high street.

She calls women who are willing not just to accept this culture, but actively to participate in it: taking up pole dancing as a hobby for instance as "female chauvinist pigs", which she defines as "women who make sex objects of other women and of ourselves".

I read the article this morning and it really struck a chord with me. especially this quote

"If you happen to be a person for whom this incredibly specific form of sexual expression [the ultra-consumerist porn-star ideal] is authentic," she says, "then this is your moment, and you should enjoy it. But if you're anyone else, then you may as well be back in the 1950s, because there's no other sexual model on offer to you."

Interested in what others think. Is this another example of women beating up each other and blaming ourselves for society's ills? An ultra conservative critique?

its always been exploitable.

and will continue to be in a society whre earning and having and spending money is a priority comrades

why should we frown on the selling of our sex - considering that it is a commodity?

because we are better than that

I think her point that we are buying - literally - into an idea of plastic-wrapped sexuality, which doesn't turn many of us on in reality, is a very valid one.

It's one of my - several, and often rather personal - problems with commercial pornography - the idea that there is one dominant image of what's sexy and that the closest you get to it, the more likely you are, in fact, to get a fuck.

(Which clearly isn't true, as I don't look like those women at all, and I've had sex with masses of people.)

LMFAO!!! excellent MI

is there a dominant image? - apart from thin.

its not always big breasted. not always blonde.

and thin isn't a new thing

Shaved and a bit plasticky.

actually there is a dominant image in western advertising, and that is a slim but curvy young women with a waits to hip ratio hovering somewhere around 0.7.

Anything below that gets in what is called 'super-normal stimuli', where we find the likes of Pam Anderson, Jordan, Lara Croft and Jessica Rabbit.

Why should we frown on selling sex? You are right it is a commodity, a natural proclivity that advertisers exploit, just as junk food makers exploit out proclivity for fatty salty food. Their aim is for us to consume as much of it as possible, in spite of the fact that it isn't good for us. People get addicted to porn, and it affects personal relationships. There have been a few threads on here about them. And what of young boys who's first sexual experience comes from such readily available and extreme porn sites on the internet? They get used to instant gratification, anything else becomes hard work. Maintaining relationships becomes hard work. There are studies that prove this. The pornification of culture has direct effects on the sexual habits of the children who come to maturity in it. You wouldn?t let your children watch porn, I imagine. There are intimations of it on our high street, on the sides of busses, bus stops, telephone boxes, you name it. You cannot escape it in mainstream culture.

Feminists like Levi are vital they challenge the amoral mechanisms of free market share-holder capitalism by raising humanitarian issues. Capitalism won?t do that for us ? we have to do it for ourselves.

Here?s a couple of interesting short articles

a new sexual manifesto

sex slaves to the market

monkeyt are you a writer, you are so great at getting the point across? it is all true

I'd like to be southeastastra. I'm just about to graduate. I did my dissertation on this exact subject though, so I've been immersed in all this stuff for about a year.

Sorry, and yes, it's about as close to 'true' as you can get. Like I said before their are arguments that the sexualisation of culture is progressive and to some extent this has been true. Just think of the visibility of gay culture now for example. This came about because the market was untapped. Even feminism was co-opted in the 90s - remember the Guinness ads using the feminist slogan 'a women needs a man like a fish needs a bike'? (also tapping the market for a new generation of female pint drinkers)

But now even gay culture is as commercially bland as heterosexual culture. The amnesty international survey on rape found that peoples attitudes on rape have not changed one bit, the conviction rates for rape are getting lower and women?s pay still lags 25% that of men?s.

I won't go on, long posts are too boring, but hopefully you get the picture of why people like Levi are important.

i grew up in the 70s where feminism was still rife and we were sort of on the right course. It all seemed to go pear shaped in the last ten years or so, i have no idea what happened, thatcher's britain? selfish society? cocaine? god knows but i fear for the next generation and as the parent of two boys will not let any blinkin nuts or those sort of mags in the house!

monkeytrousers, you're brilliant you are

Oh, erm..thanks...Can you tell DP?

i agree MT very articulate - long words and everything

i agree always good to have voices of descent in any prevailing culture - not too good to get comfortable with a prevailing ideology.

re: addicted to porn
you can get addicted to anything which makes it a smaller issue in a balanced lifestyle choice - just a little porn - not to the exclusion of a life

re: young buys first sexual experience - purleese most kids wank over a mag - doesn't have to be penthouse - could be smash hits - boys wank over magazines. nowt wrong with that. and it doesnt mean that they think thats the perfect woman.

they know its hollywood.
the same way they know if they eat chocolate for every meal - they will get fat and die.
if they take drugs they will get addicted and die
if they do anything to the extreme chances are its bad for you. its not rocket science.

Not rocket science you're right, but I'm not sure addictions work like that, if you can control it, it's not an addiction. But I happen to think there are issues in the industrialized exploitation of women in porn too, and children for that matter, and to a lesser extent, men.

Jemma Jameson, the most popular porn star today is typical of many women who go into porn. She has a history of being sexually abused. In her case she was gang raped and left for dead. Many of the people working in porn have such a history, are damaged individuals. It's ironic that some people in the media then tout these women as symbols of sexual empowerment.

And I never said boys will think the women in porn are perfect, just that they face problems in the transition to real relationships and more importantly real sexual relationships, that take time and effort to nurture. This isn't just my opinion, this is backed up by various studies. Results that, when you think about it, are hardly rocket science either.

i think its easy to demonise porn and in the same process demonise womens sexual freedom.

then by the same token - the groundswell of liberal opinion about prostitutes is - make it safe - tax them its a job

have to go be back soon

I know it's so tricky. I can't get my head around it if I'm honest. There is no way to stop prostitution but it's never going to be a 'respectable' career either.

The special built brothels around the stadia in Germany sounded so gross as well.

I think what worries me the most is that yes to some extent legalising prostitution will protect some workers, but it won't stop child and women trafficking, and the terrible abuses that happen in that process. For these people, legalisation means the governments can effectively wash their hands of them.

Small anecdote:

I was born in 1975. When I was around 7 or 8 I got the idea in my head that when you had sex it had to be in front of lots of people, and got very worried about it. (Already had Bridget Jones-style bad body-image by that stage, but that's another story).

Can't remember how the conversation went, but my Mum picked up on this worry, and reassured me that sex is 'something that's private between two people who both want to do it' - or words to that effect.

The sense of relief was overwhelming - I can still remember the feeling now.

The point is, I suppose, that's it's not that recent a phenomenon. I know the seventies is hardly ancient history, but some of the posts have implied that it's worse now than then. Don't think I agree.

linked to custardo's point about prostitution I had a friend who worked as a prostitute (although we called it escort at the weekends to supplement her income. She in no way felt exploited and just wanted extra money and this was an easy way to do it.

I feel porn restricts my sexual freedom, as it's telling me my body isn't something someone would want to have sex with.

And it's so...commercial.

Porn isn't something that really bothers me it is the amount of sexual imagery in everyday life. Page 3 bothers me much more than porn.

I totally agree TS&P!!! I don't give a stuff about porn personally it's the ever present atmosphere of manufactured sexuality that I resent. I prefer to work out in the gym without images of female singers gyrating, moaning and clutching their bits ...thankyou veeeery much!!! It changes the whole atmosphere of the place to one which I find uncomfortable - not to mention the men staring at the screen...I'm sure they find it uncomfortable too

MI thats a good point to think about.

am a bit tired - but really want to contribute in a slightly cohesive way.

i think MT hit the nail on the head when refering to the people in power legeslating for porn or prostitution thereby allowing them to ignore other stuff.

my comment has somethin to do with politicians rather than restricting access to something -in a capitalist society where everything is marketable.

of course there has to be restrictions rules boundaries. but i think the nautiness, the tabooness ( am tired sorry) the restrictive nature of getting holdof the material or the person adds to the depravity, the thrill -
i dont know what i'm saying

Yes Custy it's like drugs I wonder if it would have the same appeal if it was legalised?? but at the end of the day if Porn affects how men think about women or what they expect of women I think it matters...I feel that just because something is marketable it doesn't change what it is....charging people to use you doesn't change the fact that thats exactly what they are doing...and no matter what you believe is that really right?? does it change what you are doing?

....charging people to use you doesn't change the fact that thats exactly what they are doing...

Well put CQ.