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You've GOT to watch newsnight tonight shocker on FGM

178 replies

Screwfox · 03/09/2013 21:24

Watch this bloke justify it.
Are you a scratching?!

Full report on later apparently.

OP posts:
motownmover · 06/09/2013 15:32

I thought paxman said they tried to get Lynne Featherstone on NN but she declined??

SPBisResisting · 06/09/2013 15:54

Do threads about circumcision have derailers people asking "but what about the FGM?"

love to find out I'm wrong but sadly I doubt it

SPBisResisting · 06/09/2013 15:54

Just like DV threads - but women hit men too you know Hmm

CocoCha · 06/09/2013 16:56

Genital mutilation is genital mutilation. Until law over rides religion we will continue to tip toe around peoples misguided beliefs. People who inflict this are no better than the paedophiles who derive pleasure from torture. Unfortunately no one appears to have the appetite to police this.

A good start would be to Ban ALL circumcision - unless medically necessary and bring in school nurses for medicals.

asmaray · 06/09/2013 17:06

Islamophobia.

chillinwithmyyonis · 06/09/2013 17:09

MrsSchadenfreude, no it is not practiced widely across Nigeria, have you checked out the WHO demographics on FGM? The majority of Nigeria is inhabited by Christians who do not practice FGM. The north, minority, is inhabited by the Hausa, muslims who do probably practice FGM. And yes it is 'thick' to generalise about 'africans', as seen a lot of on this thread. FGM is not an 'african' issue as far as I can see, but a problem of specific countries some of which are african but it also exists in other parts of the world. And given that christian Nigerians make up one of the largest immigrant groups in the UK, its very insulting to see suggestions that school nurses should inspect 'african' girls for FGM, really? Maybe all child should be stripped down naked regularly by the school nurse and inspected for any sign of physical or sexual abuse or neglect. Would you be happy for that to happen to your dc? After all, its not just 'africans' that are subject to abuse is it?

CocoCha · 06/09/2013 17:18

It's not Islamaphobia. It's concern about the brutalisation of children.

WetAugust · 06/09/2013 17:20

Asmaray

Your comment is probably the most stupid I have ever seen on MN. Congratulations.

bemybebe · 06/09/2013 17:40

"Islamophobia" Lol

Kendodd · 06/09/2013 18:27

Islamophobia Sorry, what do you mean by this?

WetAugust · 06/09/2013 19:58

... and Chillin's post is an example of what I mentioned well upthread. Outrage f you try to inspect any child.

Wellwobbly · 06/09/2013 20:11

Asmaray, can you read??

"This is NOT an islamic practice, [but the islamic ummah needs to have a word with their African brethren].

It is in fact Phaeronic in origin, coming out of ancient Egypt and extends as far down as central Kenya (the Masai tribes)."

What part of any of this do you not understand?

ubik · 06/09/2013 20:22

Read Aayan Hirsi Ali's book Infidel. She had FGM performed on her by her grandmother.

Shallishanti · 06/09/2013 23:43

actually, it's a good question about inspecting children- if all girls were 'inspected' -or we could call it examined, say as part of a school medical- families would know they would get caught. Would those of us whose children aren't at risk be prepared for our own DDs to be examined, for the sake of those who are at risk?

SubliminalMassaging · 07/09/2013 06:06

the spoon idea is good in theory (would work well also girls who fear they are being taken out of the UK for a forced marriage) but the trouble with using it for girls in fear of FGM is that most of them will be too young to have any awareness of what is about to happen to them anyway. Also once they have set off the detectors and are taken off for questioning at immigration their parents will realise what they have done and will probably punish them very harshly, and will try again another time, this time checking them for spoons!

In the case of an older girl who fears forced marriage she may be prepared to be taken straight from the airport to a safe house and never see her family again but a small child can't do that.

SubliminalMassaging · 07/09/2013 06:10

Yes Shalli, the only way it would work would be if all children had to undergo periodic full checks by a nurse. It would have to be done with reasonable frequency though otherwise they'd just wait until after the check.

Perhaps on entry to nursery, then reception, then junior school, then senior school then at 15.

There should be a decent length of imprisonment for both parents - no exceptions whatsoever.

CocoCha · 07/09/2013 06:56

Other countries have school medicals. I don't see why it's such a big deal. It would pick up an awful lot of abuse cases too.

SubliminalMassaging · 07/09/2013 07:12

Maybe anyone who refuses to have their children examined periodically should have their CB stopped and any other benefit or tax credit that is given as the result of that child as well, so partial HB, etc.

It seems a ridiculously expensive and OTT solution to apply this to everyone - using a sledgehammer to crack a walnut obviously, but unfortunately to target people for checks who have strong cultural links to specific parts of Africa and Asia would just not get past the Political Correction Police.

CocoCha · 07/09/2013 07:31

Sometimes we're so stupid in this country. We can imprison people for not paying a tv licence yet we can't stop children being horrifically abused & mutilated.

Priorities are what you make them.

Italiangreyhound · 07/09/2013 11:31

This is a good film, but very very sad and disturbing.

www.channel4.com/programmes/the-day-i-will-never-forget/4od

This is an interesting organisation

www.28toomany.org/

Italiangreyhound · 07/09/2013 11:37

SubliminalMassaging I don?t know for sure that the age of girls taken out of the UK for FGM is so young that they would not know what it was about, they may have a fear of FGM or forced marriage so the spoon idea gives them a chance to tell the world what is going to happen to them. We need to reinforce through schools and education a message for young women of all cultures that their bodies are precious, special, good as they are and most of THEIR bodies. And no one has a right to mutilate or dominate or take their freedom. We also need to encourage young women to know that their lives are important and even family responsibility should not negate their freedom to make their own marriage choices. This is the law of this country and we need to empower young women of a cultures, and young men who may also be pushed into forced marriages.

Parents need to get the message, it may be that they have pressure on them for older generations so this kind of community education needs to go right though the nation. But that times time and money and I am not sure how much the UK government is willing to commit to stamp out this FGM evil in our own country!

Italiangreyhound · 07/09/2013 11:44

Shallishanti I would wholeheartedly support medical checks on children (and adults if necessary) and would be happy for me or my daughter to undergo an examination to make sure all is well in our bodies and to protect the bodies (and especially the private parts) of vulnerable children.

If these examinations detected children who were at risk or abuse of any sort this would be a good thing.

We knew for a fact children may find it hard to report any sort of abuse so by examining children?s bodies (including weighing them etc and checking private parts as part of a medical examination) society may well uncover all sorts of abuse and act on it quicker to save children.

Of course our private parts are just that, private, and it can be embarrassing to have them examined but as adult women we freely 'submit' to a smear or pap test many times in our lives and hopefully we would encourage our daughters (and sons) to go to the doctor for any medical concern.

Regular compulsory medical checks on children might uncover sexual abuse, FGM, other abuse, medical problems etc and might give children a chance to ask a doctor confidential questions e.g. Is everything normal because my penis is small, my arms are chubby, my legs are skinny etc! Children may have concerns and seeing a medical person where they can talk about their body etc might be very helpful.

It depends how children are told about it, if parents say ?This will be scary/you will be embarrassed etc.? Or ?This will be helpful; the person is a qualified medical person and can help if you are worried about anything.? They may feel fine. Little kids regularly undress at the beach or pool etc with no hint of embarrassment! As they get older they do feel ?private? rightly, but we would never want them to feel that a medical person could not see them or that could lead to fear of doctors and hospitals etc and fear of showing themselves to doctors!

Let?s be realistic, nowadays people (some people) go to a doctor on TV, they put their bums, boobs and bodies on display on ?Embarrassing bodies? and are not embarrassed! So if we teach kids from a young age bodies are not actually embarrassing and nothing is so awful you should feel you can?t tell a medially trained person and show them. How hopeful would that be!

If parent knew that their children would be regularly (could be annually or even only a few keys stages in life) examined and would have the chance to speak to a medical person, then if parents were abusing children sexually or in any way, including thinking of inflicting FGM on them, they would know this would be uncovered. Once abuse was uncovered it would not be the job of the child to report it but of the medical profession to take over and do what is necessary.
There are cultural consideration about FGM, it is not an Islamic practice but it has been adopted in some countries and places and those communities need good education which states clearly the medical facts of FGM and the legal obligation parents have to protect their children from this form of abuse. Getting mosque or communities on board to promote the law in this country and the medical facts about FGM would be very helpful.

SubliminalMassaging · 07/09/2013 11:53

Well I can't disagree with any of that. To be honest, the most effective way to increase awareness of what may happen to these girls is to tell them at school from a very young age, like reception or year one that if their families come from any of the countries where it is routinely practised in large numbers then they too are at serious risk, and they should be on the lookout for signs that it might be about to happen, (talk of going 'home' in the long summer holidays, for a start, visiting elderly female relatives etc.) and to tell an unrelated adult in a professional capacity.

But in order to get the point across effectively it would need to be a very graphic and frank discussion that will inevitably involve what will seem like a certain amount of criticism of their families and their culture. I'm just not sure how on earth we achieve that, within the confines of political correctness 'cultural sensibilities' (to hell with those in this instance, I say, but sadly I'm not the one in charge!) and catch them while they are still young enough to not already have been mutilated. Confused

Unless we are prepared to go really hardline with people from certain countries/cultures it's going to be very, very difficult to so anything that will make a meaningful difference.

PacificDogwood · 07/09/2013 12:57

I am just adding my voice against FGM.

I started a long involved post earlier and got so angry and ranty that I had to Step Away From MN Blush.

I have seen the day to day effects that FGM can have in grown women who had undergone it as children. It is beyond description.

Yy we need prosecution and convictions. And resources to support the girls and women affected - both in terms of what reconstruction surgery is possible to allow them to have as good a degree of continence and safe childbirth as is possible and for the psychological effects it can have.

SadAngrySad

Re 'islamophobia' - I am actually speechless that that old chestnut gets brought up. Such pernicious nonsense that allows the practice to contiue unchecked.

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