New brownie promise

[Nannyowl]

As a brownie leader; can I ask mums of seven year olds? Would your daughter understand to promise: "to be true to myself and develop my own beliefs"?
That is; do they have independent beliefs from you and their family? Are they able to ignore peer pressure? Do you think it is fair to ask a seven year old to make this promise? As a leader I thing they are too young imo maybe the older girls nine ten can. I not saying they are not good ideas to aspire to, but not sure to promise at seven? Would your daughters understand this?

They came up with it by giving people options and taking the ones that most people who chose to respond gave.

I find the community debate interesting - as I've said, Girl Guides is basically an international community organization. Communities can be any size. I would rather my DDs think of the global community and choose their communities than country which makes me think of nationalism .

I think in this context being true to yourself means being true to your principals. Do the right thing, even when it's not the easy thing, don't follow the herd etc. Don't sell yourself short; act in a way you can be proud of, whatever that means for you.

I don't have a 7 year old DD, but I think I would have understood it to some degree at 7. And I did have independent beliefs at that age as well, I have always been quite Goddy and my parents and brother are not. (Parents are vaguely "spiritual", brother atheist, me a regular church-goer. :) )

My DD aged 6.5 is a believer whilst I am not. She had no problem Witt the old promise but equally I expect her to have no problem thinking about the new one. I think that there is a need for a few activities over a couple of weeks to discuss what it means.

I am a Guide leader myself and I am really pleased with the change.

For me, the promise is not supposed to be easy. It is a solemn promise and I ask my girls and any one else there to think about their promise when we do enrolments. I am due a long service award soon and I will renew my promise with the new one

Thank you everyone for your comments, have lots of ideas of how to present it to the girls now.

Good luck, Nanny. You sound like a great and thoughtful guider. I started another thread on the new promise - but this one is a lot more gentle and considered.

Brownies always showed me how thoughtful they were.

'Global community' is spot on! I like that.

I am very pleased by the change. I was both atheist and vegetarian by the age you mention, and decided not to continue Brownies or go on to Guides due to the 'god' promise.

When the law was updated to make it more 'inclusive' a few years ago I was horrified that it still discriminated against atheists and agnostics. It was as though atheist beliefs (and non-beliefs can be as strong as beliefs) were completely ignored or invisible.

My child has atheist and RC parents, and we have spoken to nursery about how religion is addressed (again atheism was forgotten). Even our 3 year old knows that people have different beliefs, and respects them.

I am sure some discussion around what the new wording means would help children to understand if they don't already.

What a load of trite, wishy-washy, meaningless nonsense. I was really pleased when I heard they were changing the pledge. Dd made her Brownie promise recently and doesn't believe in God. She was given the choice of missing out the 'God bit', which she did. I told her about the new one and she said 'what on earth does that mean?!'. I agree!

"develop my beliefs"? do they not see contrived that sounds? It's a bit cringeworthy.
And I have come to loathe the word "community"
Another area of life that IMO has been unnecessarily messed with.

So at guides are they planning to include "ensure I make space for me time"
Sorry, not helpful.

I agree that it's a little introspective / complex for a 7 year old but I imagine they'd get the gist of it.
Maybe they should just promise not to drop litter.
That would be enough.

holmessweetholmes well put.

I promise that I will do my best to do my duty to God.
To serve the queen and help other people and keep the Brownie Guide law.

But I can't remember to buy kitchen roll.

My dd joined Guides in Canada when we moved, and like their pledge (better than the new English one to be honest)

I promise to do my best, to be true to myself, my beliefs, and Canada.
I will take action for a better world and respect the Guiding Law.

The be true to yourself bit is something they spend a fair bit of time talking about very much as Rea said and it really focuses on not following the crowd, being a strong role model and growing up as a girl. I like the action for a better world too. Canada has quite a positive type of patriotism, so I was OK with that, it certainly seems more menaingful than pledging to the Queen.

They spent a few years preparing for the pledge, I think it was at the end of their first term, and it was a big deal for dd. She was 9. They use the same pledge for Brownies and I think it's fairly understandable with a little bit of prep. the Sparks (Rainbows in the UK I think) just say "I promise to share and be a friend.

I am glad they dropped the god bit. The prose is terrible though. Very dumbed down. I think the guides at least should come up with their own promise, that is the only way it could be meaningful.

We do the promise in the second week of term and never refer to it again. I am far more interested in providing positive role models and encouraging adventure. As a feminist I find too much emphasis in being good and helpful a bit squashing. I think guiding is about having access to lots of new experiences, having confidence that girls together can make a difference, and doing crafts with chocolate! It is interesting that on this thread we have yet to hear from a religious guider.

I imagine 7 year olds will put more thought into it. My 7 yr old is very careful and serious when she thinks about beliefs and right and wrong.

"to be true to myself and develop my own beliefs"?
What does that mean exactly. My mother said, rather tartly, well you could say that of Hitler. (She's an ex Guide Captain).

I hate all this 'you could say that of Hitler' stuff being bandied about. You could also say it of Florence Nightingale, Ghandi, Nelson Mandela, Emmeline Pankhurst, Rosa Parks etc. Do people really presume that 7 yo girls have particularly fascist tendencies?

Also, the promise has always been linked to the laws:

A Guide is honest, reliable and can be trusted.
A Guide is helpful and uses her time and abilities wisely.
A Guide faces challenge and learns from her experiences.
A Guide is a good friend and a sister to all Guides.
A Guide is polite and considerate.
A Guide respects all living things and takes care of the world around her.

The laws have always said a lot more about how you should act. Being true to yourself in conjunction with promising to keep the laws is far less dangerous than a belief that everyone should swear allegiance to a religion, whether or not they believe in it.

And before anyone says 'if you don't like it, don't join', the Guides have always been open to all, even during a time when that was actually quite controversial. Unfortunately, the Promise never matched that, partly because it was written during a time when it would be unusual to be open about being non-religious. S we had an organisation with a Promise that didn't match its ethos, this change is simply a long-overdue solution to that.

I promise that I will do my best to do my duty to God.
To serve the queen and help other people and keep the Brownie Guide law. Emily, that's the one I remember too. The 'country' bit must have been added in since. The old promise was all about helping others and duty, the new one is all about me, me, me and trendy waffle. Not keen.

They took the god out of school' - which country are you talking about? Christian worship is still compulsory in British state schools.

Are you serious? Dd has been through the state school system (she's doing A levels now) and I was surprised to discover recently that she has never even heard The Lord's prayer. There has never been any religious content to assemblies, not even singing All things Bright and Beautiful, so what form is this Christian Worship taking?

All those who object to 'serving the Queen', don't forget she promised to serve us too, and I think she's more than lived up to her side of it.

Pixel worship has to be broadly Christian in character, which is so vague that schools interpret it in their own way.