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New brownie promise

94 replies

Nannyowl · 19/06/2013 11:14

As a brownie leader; can I ask mums of seven year olds? Would your daughter understand to promise: "to be true to myself and develop my own beliefs"?
That is; do they have independent beliefs from you and their family? Are they able to ignore peer pressure? Do you think it is fair to ask a seven year old to make this promise? As a leader I thing they are too young imo maybe the older girls nine ten can. I not saying they are not good ideas to aspire to, but not sure to promise at seven? Would your daughters understand this?

OP posts:
PromQueenWithin · 19/06/2013 17:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Floggingmolly · 19/06/2013 17:45

Brownies was always open to all girls regardless of faith.

EduCated · 19/06/2013 17:47

When we discussed the promise consultation I was amazed at how eloquent and outspoken our Guides and and Brownies were, especially sme of the younger ones. As part of it we asked them to write their own versions of the Promise - the new one is very similar to a lot of what they suggested! I think they'll pleased Smile

JugglingFromHereToThere · 19/06/2013 17:51

Yes, I think this is a good move, and thought Guide rep on "breakfast" this morning was very good, talking about reasons behind the changes. She mentioned they've been listening to people outside of Guiding as well as within, and I thought of thread we had on here maybe last year about this !

I agree with OP though that they could have taken opportunity to make it even simpler, especially for Brownie age group.
"Help other people" is good. The rest is pretty much lost on many I imagine - though if family talk about their beliefs and values it may mean more.
I'm not even sure about promising to always "do your best" - what does that actually mean ? I think you could promise to do your best in a particular situation maybe, but all the time is asking a lot !!

BrianTheMole · 19/06/2013 17:52

I think a seven yr old could understand that. My nearly six yr old could understand that after a little conversation about it.

ReadytoOrderSir · 19/06/2013 19:13

This atheist Brownie Leader is delighted! :-)

When doing promise prep activities with my girls I always explained "to love my god" as being the most personal part of the promise. My understanding of 'god' is different to yours, is different to hers ...

This new version is much more inclusive. It also makes it clear that Guiding is NOT a faith-based organisation, so we can start to break down that stereotype of church parades.

I wonder what we're going to do about the song though?
^We're Brownie Guides, we're Brownie Guides
We're here to lend a hand.
To love our God and serve our Queen
and help our homes and land.^

TolliverGroat · 19/06/2013 19:26

I don't think it's any more complicated than the old one, and talking through with seven-year-olds what it means is a good first step to setting them on the path to actually doing it.

I'm very encouraged by this move good to see Guiding more progressive than Scouting (well, I suppose it would better to see them both being equally progressive) and might give DD1 a bit of a push towards Brownies now.

TolliverGroat · 19/06/2013 19:27

ReadytoOrderSir, you can just about fit in "To be true to ourselves and serve our Queen" if you sing it quickly...

mrsjay · 19/06/2013 20:01

dd is a guide so a wee bit older we got the new promise yesterday she quite likes it and i think it is inclusive who ever said about the queen the queen is Patron of the guiding movement in britain so well they need to say the qeenie bit

Dontlookattheknees · 19/06/2013 20:59

It god that and inclusive organisation finally has a promise that reflects that.
I'm also pleased that I don't have to lie anymore when I say it (as an atheist little owl)

I would have liked the queen bit gone but don't think there is a big republican vote in GG :)

Dozer · 19/06/2013 21:43

I didn't like the Queen or God part aged 7/8 but said it all as wanted to do the brownie salute!

Think the whole promise should be optional, as long as the children behave etc.

Dozer · 19/06/2013 21:44

Don't know don'tlookattheknees, there may be a large number of republican brownies!

noddyboulder · 19/06/2013 21:45

Ds was thrown out of cubs as he dared to question swearing to love God. He was 6, and knows we don't believe, but that he can choose what he wants to think when he is old enough. The cub leader went nuts, the silly cow. I hope they change their rules too, as I will then take her round a big slice of humble pie.

1 Corinthians, 7 12-14

12 To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13 And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

If it applies to marriage, you'd think she'd tolerate the presence of small children of undecided faith, wouldn't you?

Livelifenow · 19/06/2013 22:08

They took God out of school and look what has happened. Poor behaviour, no values etc. I suspect this will be another downhill slope. They may as well change the whole thing and remove the name Brownie and create a new club.

phantomnamechanger · 19/06/2013 22:09

Rainbow guider here - i think its great to remove the God part and thats as a christian myself. I have always said that if a child from a non religious or non christian background wanted to join my unit I would let them promise "to do my best to be loving and kind and helpful" - and ignore the God bit - so shoot me! They sign up for the fun and crafts, not to pledge themselves to a religion!

But I also think the new words mean NOTHING to a 5 yr old.
A better version would have been "I promise that i will do my best to be kind and helpful and respect other people and our world" now THAT they would understand - and it is still holding on to a the idea of being upright caring citizens etc.

I am depressed by the embarrassing crapness of our new promise, I really am Sad

exexpat · 19/06/2013 22:15

'They took the god out of school' - which country are you talking about? Christian worship is still compulsory in British state schools.
And in any case it is perfectly possible to be a good, moral, charitable, law-abiding etc person without being religious.

Livelifenow · 19/06/2013 22:33

Good, moral, law abiding, charitable; I think you'll find they are all coming from God, ultimately.

exexpat · 19/06/2013 22:45

Livelifenow - please don't try to impose your religious beliefs on others.

LastTangoInDevonshire · 19/06/2013 22:59

Livelifenow is entitled to say her piece as much as the atheists on this thread who are whooping for joy, and making sure that their 6 year old children question God.

Livelifenow · 19/06/2013 22:59

Would never impose my views. Just like you are entitled to express your views I am entitled to express mine.

Housemum · 19/06/2013 23:03

i think the new promise seems a bit waffly - agree with others who say it should be about helping others. "Be true to myself" sounds like some bulls**t from a makeup commercial!

Personally I had no trouble with the reference to "my God" as could see how it related to other faiths, but can understand that it excluded atheists (or presumably those who believe in many gods) so it needed to change if you are asking girls to make a promise. Which is not the same as schools having a "broadly Christian" assembly - no Muslim/Hindu/Jew/Sikh/atheist/whoever is being asked to promise to believe there, they are just expected to listen to the school assembly and respect that particular belief.

exexpat · 19/06/2013 23:03

In that case perhaps you could have said that you think those values ultimately come from god, rather than saying that I would find that?

I have been an atheist since the age of 7 or 8 (without any prompting from anyone else, purely from questioning what I was being taught in Sunday school) and I do not find anything of the sort.

loubielou31 · 19/06/2013 23:16

I don't think I know what "being true to myself" means, I have no idea how I would explain it to my DD when she comes to make her Brownie promise, (she's a Rainbow now)
Is there going to be some guidance for Guiders to help you with this?
Not being afraid to stand up for yourself? Celebrating our differences and our achievements?

Actually now I'm giving it proper consideration I have no idea what that means. It is just a nonsense imo.

The my beliefs bit is easier because there is are already plenty of recognised beliefs to draw on as examples.

Good luck

PatPig · 19/06/2013 23:41

www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/god-is-dead-say-girl-guides-2013061972665

How did they come up with such a shitty pledge?

They could have gone with 'love and support others' or something, but no it's vacuous crap about being true to myself.

ThisIsMummyPig · 19/06/2013 23:41

I am a guide leader. For her Leadership Qualification my YL did an evening of promises from around the world, and then asked our girls to come up with their own promise. I think they would be fairly happy with this.

Personally I don't like the community bit. I think it is far more introspective than country. Communities tend (ime) to be based around schools, faith groups, and in some areas employers. The people from the next village, or the other area of town may not be part of your community, but yet it can be so rewarding to reach out to them.

I don't believe in God. I always told my girls that the promise is 'to love my God', so if they think that their god is the god of consumerism, and can be worshiped at the local shopping centre, that's fine by me. I also tended to waffle on about most people believing in something, mother nature, fate, their star signs etc.

Sorry Nannyowl, I don't have a clue about 7yos.

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