Does Anne Diamond have a point?

[Ilovemyself]

Anne Diamond has been quoted as saying that some of the victims of celebrity sex abuse may have been groupies who hung around waiting for celebs.

Whilst I am not condoning any predetary sex offences, should anyone who wanted a liaison with a "star" be looked at differently.

I don't know. There are people that throw themselves at celebrities but it's up to the celebrity to not take advantage of it surely?

They may well have been.

That doesn't make it OK for an adult man to have sex with them if they are under age.

That's it isn't it seeker, if they were throwing themselves at the celebrities it doesn't mean they have to respond to it.

Hmm.

Lots and lots and lots of slebs attract groupies. Only a few are accused of sexual offences. Perhaps there's an obvious reason?

Some indulge with enthusiastically consenting groupies who are of age. Others are reckless about consent and/or age.

I think it was in John Taylor's autobiography that the itinerary for their tours had the age of consent for each US state on that day's page.

What seeker said.

Or should that be , because they cared. I don't know.

I don't necessarily think they wanted sex, though. They wanted attention, from someone they idolised. I went through a phase of following a band around in the 80's, never actually got backstage or met them but if I had, it would not have been with the expectation of sex. Possibly I was a very naive 15 year old, but I just wanted to be near my heroes, to hang around with them. On the other hand, if I had got close and (hypothetically) they had initiated sex it's entirely likely that I'd have been so overawed by them I'd have gone along with it. And (hypothetically) that would have been wrong of them. They're the ones in the position of power and it's up to them not to abuse that. (NB have never heard any dodgy rumours about the band in question, I'm sure they're all lovely people!)

I went off John Peel in a big way when that piece he wrote about 13 year old groupies in the USA came to light - he was well aware of their ages and still took advantage.

The teenage me idolised Duran Duran, but I didn't want to have sex with John Taylor. I would have run a mile, I just wanted to admire him from afar.

How funny, Sparkling, the band in question was Duran Duran :o Nick for me, though...

Awww fond memories of sitting outside John Taylor's house and hanging round the Holiday Inn in Birmingham Lovecat.

I still have a huge box of memorabilia in the loft

I have a friend who passionately followed a group back in the 80s. Not a top band but certainly one people would have heard of. She went to every concert, hung around hotels and got backstage and did end up sleeping with a band member while she was age 15. This continued (not often but I guess a number of times )until she was 16. She does not feel taken advantage of at all. I don't think she would dream of ever making an accusation that she was a victim; she feels she was a absolutely up for it and encouraged it.
I don't know what I feel tbh. No way would I have wanted anything like that at 15, but people are different and she was a lot more mature and self assured. It doesn't sit easily that if she were a citizen in some countries and states, there would have been absolutely no problem at all. Also, I don't believe there was any psychological difference the day she turned 16 . The guy in question was not a lot older btw- late teens- so it was the type of liaison which police would have turned a blind eye to had it been the boy down the street. This girl had also slept with previous boyfriends. So I don't know really. I think it's very hard to put a case like my friends alongside some of the others we hear about

I really liked a popular band when I was 14. I saw them live, met them backstage afterwards, went to their hotel room the next day to get an album signed.

Anne Diamond would probably say I was 'throwing myself' at them by wanting to meet them and hang out with them for a bit.

They all behaved impeccably.

It's the 'Mandy Smith' scenario, isn't it? If any case of sustained child abuse should come to court it should be Bill Wyman. But she was seen at the time and is still seen as a willing participant with parental approval, although I gather she now realises she was exploited. Diamond's right to point out the dilemma but I don't think the victims should be treated any differently just because they were prima facie volunteers...

And that's what I wanted too from my favourite band linerunner. Even at age 16/17 I think I would have run a mile from anything more. But people aren't all the same are they- my friend says she really wanted to sleep with the band member and doesn't regret it at all.

But so what? So what if a 14/15 year old throws themselves at a band member - that absolves them from any guilt in sleeping with a child then, does it? I think it is a disgusting article from a mother of 4 who should know better, and it made me .

Me too Feenie, Anne Diamond has got it all wrong.

Feenie- I am not saying I liked what my friend did or condone abuse. I am simply contributing to the discussion. The fact is that it can be a complicated issue because if my friend had been born several hundreds of miles away in Spain for example, there would be no issue. If she'd first had sex with the guy on her 16 th birthday in the UK there would be no issue. She had already slept with other teenage boys, which many people don't seem to have an issue about.

Any older man who sleeps with an under 16 year old knows he is breaking the law - the law which protects children. And deserves everything he fucking gets.

What Seeker said. Though it's quite possible Anne Diamond has been misquoted and that she also agrees with Seeker!

So how come Wyman is still a free man? I remember the Sunday paper articles at the time when Mandy Smith was described as a 'wild child', drinking, attending parties, and it was quite clear she was engaged in a sexual relationship with a much older man. We're only talking the mid-late eighties and the law which protects children was nowhere to be seen. No-one (not even her mother) was up in arms demanding prosecution at the time. The NSPCC weren't involved, people didn't boycott Stones concerts in protest. That's the context Diamond is referring to.

I have no idea why Wyman was allowed to flout the law - or why he hasn't been arrested since. But the law was clear at the time, and others chose to stick to it - I am citing the dubious John Taylor quote here.

'Bill Wyman wasn't arrested so I can do what I like' would seem to be to be a very dangerous premise for anyone to live by.

Interesting though, that when the age old thread 'how old were you when you first had sex' crops up, as it does on MN every few months, a significant proportion of replies are from women who were underage, sometimes in long term relationships with someone a year or so older, and very often the women state that they enjoyed it and they don't feel they were exploited at all.

sometimes in long term relationships with someone a year or so older

That's very different from an older man who consistently and deliberately sets out to have sex with underage girls. They do not need the excuse that the same girls 'threw' themselves at them.

Quite feenie
I was talking about the case of my friend, where the band member was not a lot older (17 I think.)