Tia Sharpe case

[phantomnamechanger]

I had been wondering about this case ever since it first hit the headlines last year, as my DD is the same age as Tia
uk.news.yahoo.com/tia-sharp-hazell-took-photo-girls-body-163949011.html#R5Rq9Sd distressing details emerging of this case. poor child. I hope her killer gets a very very very long sentence. What a week, with this and the April Jones case. Sick, sick individuals.

flanbase As far as I understand it, everyone involved in this case has a job.

ok - thank you for informing me. I was just asking on their situation.

So, instead of saying what we cannot do and excusing some pretty poor behaviour what can we do?

great posts from carpevinum

I'm not clear if Hazells behaviour worsened over time? Because if they had been together for 5 years is it possible that originally he wasn't too much of a red flag, it crept up - but so slowly and insidiously that no-one realised?

5 years is a long time, and I guess anyones defences would gradually get lowered, as it became normalised. (Sorry if this already known, I haven't read all the details)

I can't believe the level of focus on working and the Women, where is the discussion about the Father, grandfathers, paternal GM? All the focus on the two Women who were there for thechild. The Women were taken in, it wasn't them it was Hazel. The focus should be on dealing with these anti social personality predators.

The father had moved onto with someone else so had the mother and grandmother. I expect there are lots of step this and that but no one really noticed or said anything - or maybe had their own lives to lead.

The Father had moved on and had his own life to lead, omg, I can't believe you think its ok for a Father to abandon his child.

I think it is absolutely disgusting. Sorry, I didnt make that clear. All these people leaving partners, moving onto to other people, having children with them and then moving on. Its horrible. No wonder the children get forgotten.

If I was the father I would be horrified that a man who had issues with drink and drugs and had been in jail (and dated both the mother of my child and the GM) thought it was OK to be around Tia.

It seems to me that everyone who was supposed to be a part of Tia Sharp's life chose something or someone else over her. That is her tragedy. her biological father had not seen her for several years (although he managed to turn up in court....how interesting).He chose his other interests over her.

Her natural mother chose a crack pipe and a new boyfriend over her.

Her grandmother chose Stuart Hazell, knowing - KNOWING - that he was a convicted repeat offender with a drug habit, a drink habit and violent tendencies, and also knowing that he had removed the bathroom door, drilled holes in the wall , yet she persists in her stance that 'there were no clues'. Of course there were clues - including the ghastly, sordid truth that he had slept with the mother as well. She chose him, willingly.

They ARE all somewhat culpable in my opinion because they all neglected her and put their own sexual interests before a child. Shame on them.

I agree Donnie - but dare you judge their choices in partners and lifestyle? There are no real boundaries here. Do what you like. No one will judge you.

I didnt realise the father hadnt had any contact for a number of years. Its funny how people can get all moral over something like this.

Whilst the only person who murdered Tia was Hazell this disfunctional family need to take a careful look at their own lifestyles and choices. They put themselves first as is often the case in these tragic stories. The children come way down the list.

I know, that's what I mean. I'm not sure this could of been prevented. And people with no insight into red flags won't always be capable of developing it.

Quite.

The system couldn't cope with drastic intervention in terms of generationally dysfunctional families with fixed risk blindness. It is barely coping now,

But all multi generational chaotic families start somewhere. Where the heart of the matter is moderate to severe mental health or health issues unless we shore up the agencies in those areas they are more or less lost to a halt or a reversal. However, a fall into a chaotic family state is not a given, even when somebody is teetering on the cusp.

I'd suggest something like one prong going for developing minds and one going for adults.

Perhaps something like the Dutch sex/relationship ed programme "Long Live Love" in schools. Reworked for micro-cultural relevance if needed to address the areas where it might not be clear to youngsters what constitutes "good" and healthy love and what does not. With a structure that aims to give them clear strategies to identify "iffy" areas and the how/why of walking away before they are in too deep. Not least to counteract the bollocks so many of them are exposed to just from mainstream entertainment producers, let alone less than wonderful examples of love in their own home or community. Start it young and keep it going as part of FE or HE. If the gov is going to raise the leaving age it might be worth exploiting that to maintain attention during the timeframe when so many make their first forays into fully fledged relationships and become young parents. I personally wouldn't have any issue extending the programme to challenge to "Love is Enough and An Answer To All Critisim In its Own Right" and including "How Can I Be a Good Parent When I Become One" in that package that includes illustrating red flags and sensitising young people to their importance, their outcomes and where to calibrate their alarm system. Others may disagree.

I'd like to see something like that backed up with a beefed up school pastoral care system that can refer kids in a timely manner if it results in them bringing up issues in their own lives. (And I aplogise to people working in schools for suggesting that once again they get even more mission creep dumped on them)

For adults I think a social challenge to "victimhood as proof of non culpability due to lack of intension" is needed. While its intensions are good it lowers the bar among the "cusp walkers" and can sleepwalk them over the edge towards a fixed state of dysfunction while they chunter "don't judge me! It's not my fault!! I love my kids and I'm a good parent
despite the plethora of evidence to the contrary that demonstrates my standards and outlook need a reality check ". Using peer pressure and an unapologetic exploitation of most people's desire to be seen as a good parent. I'd pick social media/netowrkd as a medium because it is conversation based not just "talk at you" based and forces a "digestible" chunks approach. It would need to done with nuance, not a sledge hammer. I have no idea who you could put in charge of coordinating the seeding of something like that. Perhaps a collaboration between various children's charities and parent based business like mumsnet, netmums, that sort of thing?

It's not a super cheap solution, but I think tiny austerity budgets availble wise it might not be tood bad (but then I failed my maths o level so I cpuld be way off)

Good enough ? Anything like enough to do more than grab back just some future victims of families who are dangling just over the edge ? No.

Better a deeply polarised row after each and every tragedy ? Possibly.

At last - someone saying what we can do going foward as opposed to trying to make excuses for their behaviour.

I dont think this family going in front of the media anymore is a good idea.

They come across as defensive, very opinionted about what they would like to do to Hazell but seemingly nothing whilst he was around them!

If only people started taking responsibility for their own decisions as opposed to blaming others or only thinking of what THEY want and need.

These people arent victims and if we portray them like this I believe we will only allow them to become less and less associated with what they choose to do and more likely to blame others for what befalls them

Yes, Tia's Dad and Paternal GD, found the train fare to go to court. I remember him being criticised for not wanting to spend holiday spending money on Train fare to help look for his then missing child. As I say, all the focus and blame went on the Women.

How awful. I think he needed to go to court because if he hadnt bothered to do that he would have been run out of town.... How smug and moral he is now and how opinionated.

When is it going to become unacceptable for ANYONE father or mother to leave a relationship (if even it was one in the first place before they had a child!) and convienently forget their responsibilities.

You only have to watch Jermey Kyle (and its like a bear pit there!) to see that there are 100's of disfunctional families only thinking of themselves and claiming they would 'die for their children' but actually doing the complete opposite and not thinking of anyone but themselves.

I wonder if he was one of those people banging on the prison vans as they go past outside court. I always wonder who does that.

Morally outraged but couldnt be bothered to look for her or see her for years.

Quite, handcream - apparently he had not even bothered to send her a birthday card for years, yet there he is shouting the odds and demanding 'justice'. He chose a different life over his own daughter. And yes, I really do judge people like the mother - I really do. If someone chooses a crack pipe over their own child and is happy for that child to spend the majority of their time with their grandparent, who is fucking one of their ex-partners, and is a convicted offender and open junkie, then yes, I will judge.

think a system like that would be great, in theory. Unfortunately in practice the social care system in the UK (and even more so in Ireland, where I am) is bursting at the seams already. Social workers are seen as the wicked childcatcher, and anyone suggesting that families should take a more responsible approach to having and raising children is shouted down by those who cite civil liberty.

I know love. Damned if they do and damned if don't and it's all holed up in a creaky leaky boat.

That's why I went for social media seeding from non gov agencies/entities and schools taking on a Brit version of "Long Live Love".

It wouldn't be anything like enough of an antidote to what too many kids see day in day out. But there are those that hovver on the edge of a potential lifetime of dysfunction and pain all accross the socio-econ range. And some could be hauled back from abyss if they and their peer group were consistently encouraged to have high expectations in terms of their relationships and were actively taught what "healthy" DIDN'T look like and why we have some taboos.

If I could think of a way to get people to support better funded child protection and to consider the poverty of outcomes post removal for even very young children in cases where people have been prone to give evidently inadequate parents "yet another chance" I would do it.

But if Khyra Ishaq's caseworker can have 50 cases on her desk and people still yell "crappy social services don't know what they are doing !" rather than react in horror and demand funds and resouces start moving in the other direction...I don't think there is anything sayable or doable that will make a dent.

I think social media seeding is a good idea, Carpe. I have learned masses from MN over two years, little by little, about parenting in a better way and it has been of huge benefit especially as a lone parent.

It also has the potential of giving a parent a community outside of their otherwise possibly narrow immediate social circle.

From what I understand, her dad left when she was little and they didn't see much of each other.

Tia spent a lot of time at her grandmother's because her mom and step dad where crack addicts (known to social services).

Hazell had a criminal history.

A lot of red flags. Tia was failed by all those involved. I only feel sorry for Tia. Poor girl, cant imagine what she went through.

I jus overheard in a cafe that Tia's family amnd extended family are being paid thosands of pounds for various media interviews and that her step Dad is looking for 2,000 plus before he talks to a papers

Please, please tell me this isn't true.

It's true according to the Daily Mail.

Who I think are less interested in the issues that throws up and are more interesting in doing a bit of benefit bashing with a side order of "that'll teach you to go to the competition"

I find their tone hard to take. How do they think a section of the public have arrived at the point where they almost expect to attract large fees to be "the lead that bleeds". Can't have anything to do with a culture they have taken an active role in, hhmmm dmaily ?

If the article is true this family need to hang their heads in shame.

I don't think they are operating on the same social vision of what is dignified/ethical as say the bulk of the public loce, it's that "normalisation" thing again.

And perhaps an unitended consequence of the last 15 years or so of obsession with "reality entertainment". 15 minutes of fame (regardless of context) as one's due and all that jazz.

To be fair to them, I don't think they stood a chance in the face of slick producers smarming them and spinning a web of bollocks abput "putting a stop to misinformation, letting people see ypur side of the story so they will understand and leave you alone".

I think there needs to be a mass outpouring of outrage towards the people that pay people to do paid interviews in these sorts of circs. They set the tone and the precidence becuase they are the ones doing the most cashing in on a dead girl's horrible fate and they are the ones with the power.

That is where public revultion will be most effective at stopping this sort thing even happening in the first place as well as underlinging that generally speaking we find it repugnant. Especially if we all turn it off and do a two week boycott everytime they step over the line.