Tia Sharpe case

[phantomnamechanger]

I had been wondering about this case ever since it first hit the headlines last year, as my DD is the same age as Tia
uk.news.yahoo.com/tia-sharp-hazell-took-photo-girls-body-163949011.html#R5Rq9Sd distressing details emerging of this case. poor child. I hope her killer gets a very very very long sentence. What a week, with this and the April Jones case. Sick, sick individuals.

[Snazzynewyear]

I don't understand what is being achieved by them going on tv either.

[RooneyMara]

for the telly company, ratings. for the family - maybe they want to try and defend themselves? But it just feels so bloody inappropriate.

[changechangechange]

How dare a bereaved family not behave in the One True Dignified Way.

[deepfriedsage]

Yes the chance to put their story across, the press are not known to tell the whole story. They are grieving and traumatised,if it helps them then I can't see the problem. Smacks of jk and inappropriate to me.

[CarpeVinum]

there's no way on earth that I would allow him near my children. I cannot understand people who do tbh.

On an emotional level I think it is always going to hard to understand. Mainly because we react to the details with our own mindset of what is a red flag and what is an appropriate response to a red flag and can't comprehend such an automatic process not taking place.

If you take what was known to the family about Hazell prior to his inclusion in this child's life what would happen in your average family is basically a list of questions where we get the answer so fast we don't even notice the question process.


Does this person have good judgement ?
Does this person have a solid sense of boundaries?
Is this person at risk of being in an impaired state due to substance use/abuse around my child?
Is this person able to put my child's needs before their own wants ?
Is this person capable of losing control and acting in a violent manner ?
Is the person able to consistently provide a good role model ?


...stuff like that.

But as to why a family would not undergo that rapid fire internal questioning - insta answer process...well they would not be able to answer those questions positively about themselves in the main, let alone any outsider. Which could mean either

on a sub conscious level they avoid such questions because it causes self doubt about one's own status as a safe person to be in contact with, let alone responsible for, a child. It think it is easier to understand when you put it in the context of ...in order to instigate any kind of risk assessment on an outsider a relative would face having to recognise themselves as not a good enough parent/person in loco parentis becuase they too "fail" on the checklist of questions. I think that is probably an unbearable proposition and showing tolerance ("I took him as I found him" - alla Tia Sharp's grandmother) in the face of certain facts, may be indicative of a conscious or sub conscious defence against having to recognise their own parental/familial shortfall.

OR

the questioning process wasn't triggered because certain behaviours that your average gen pub would find red flaggy (at best) do not register as causes for concern because those behaviours have become normalised within that family. That normalisation could be the result of a multi generational issue or it may be a first generation absorption due to being plunged into an emotional/physical environment where previous norms are subdued and eroded by the surrounding prevalence of "the new normal".

See what I mean ?

[handcream]

Just watching the interview with the grandmother. Carpe is right. Defensive, said she didnt notice anything out of the norm with Hazell despite knowing his past and how he had behaved because in her circle this WAS normal.

[deepfriedsage]

Watched This Morning too. Gm thought the drinking, drugs and criminal record were normal to her.

I think PS went too far rbepeating the google searchwords.

GM comes across as very traumatised and numb.

[handcream]

I think to her what he was like, the drug taking, the prison record, the daughter who was taking drugs, the fact that the family were known to ss's, all of this was just taken for granted by her and seen as normal.

[NC78]

It isn't normal, but none of that is a red flag for murder or paedophilia.

It's almost like they have been treated like they have brought this on themselves, I find this really cruel. The way they have been treated by the media is disgusting. They have been ripped apart to make some political points about the 'underclass' and 'broken britain'. So much so that the mum has been attacked in the street. Yes, they may have had their problems, but they have been demonised IMO - to they point where they are being treated like they are devoid of human emotions. Look how they were treated by the justice system - the pictures of Tia that were held up in front of the whole court, in front of the public gallery, and in front of Hazel so he could look at them one more time. Awful.

There may have been signs that he was an abuser that she just couldn't read. Some people are easily manipulated and don't have the ability to see through otheres at all, others can cold read people to such an extent they make money as false psychics. I can read peole like books and have found it quite painful to watch people being taken in by certain wrong 'uns. And you can rarely get through to someone who is in love. Only an abuser is responsible for abuse.They convince people they are normal until they are trusted with their kids. That's how they do what they do. And a lot of them are not drug users with criminal records. If you think you can protect your children from sexual abuse by avoiding drug users and known criminals, you are mistaken.

[CarpeVinum]

It isn't normal, but none of that is a red flag for murder or paedophilia

You are not supposed set your red flag alert meter to "eleminate paedophiles and murder risk" you are supposed to set your red flag meter far far far far lower than that.

To say there was no evidence of what he was to do belies the reality that his access to this child could have been eleiminated had they been willing or able to set their alarm system at a much lower (and more average) setting.

They say there were no red flags for what he was to do. However he took the bathroom door off. In house frequenteed regularaly by a devolping young girl who was regularrly spending the night alone with an unrelated man. To you or I that might give pause. We don't know what red flags were waggling madly that this family didn't see becuase of red flag blindness.

Only Hazell is responisble for her viloation and death. It does not follow that that her family have no culpability in allowing him full access to her. Becuase while they may not have been able to percive him as a sexual/murder threat his known history was enough to set of a normal alarm system just on the basis of "good drug free role model".

If we refuse in the name of taste and kindness and not wanting to pour salt in a wound to underline where a decent setting of "alarm bells" meter is and demonstrate what really must be viewed as a red flag in order to minimise harm to children .... then albeit it with the best of intensions we are inadvertantly colluding with the people who would prefer that ever more parents lower the bar of access to their children to "well he doesn't seem like a murderous nonce to me".

[handcream]

NC78, you seem to be excusing them as not being able to see the red flags. What would a red flag be to enable this family to think they shouldnt let this man in - another god forbid murder?

I do think this was a disfunctional family with SS and ex partners all over the place - for them that is normal. What I am suggesting is how do stop this happening again?

[handcream]

Yes, time and time again the children that people have are just forgotton, they can take drugs, move in different bloke after different bloke and god forbid anyone judges them for their choices.

They can do what they like.

And their children are likely to copy their irresponsible beahviours because actually - no one will say anything.

[flanbase]

Have this family ever worked a day in their lives? Did they complete schooling?

[Nancy66]

The grandmother worked and Hazell did too. Not sure about Tia's mother.

I don't think unemployment is the issue here, rather poor judgement.

[flanbase]

Just trying to understand the background the family comes from. Some people can't get work but do all they can to find a job. Just wondering if the tax payer is supporting this family

[NC78]

Have this family ever worked a day in their lives? Did they complete schooling?

How is that at all relevant to a murder?

Do we have deserving and undeserving murder victims now?! You only deserve symapthy for your child being murdered if you have paid enough national insurance?

Her gran was working nights in a care home when it happened, was she not?

[flanbase]

Just trying to understand the situation the poor girl was placed in. I'm not making an argument about benefit culture

[flanbase]

I'm asking on their social situation. This is a valid thing to ask about. I wouldn't have anything to do with a drug addict as I wouldn't put my kids in the situation of being with type of person

[NC78]

What about all the kids abused by teachers, priests, scout masters etc.

You can't prevent your kids from being abused by avoiding scummy boyfriends. Some of these men (and women) are suppossed pillars of the community. The parents trust them, and have no good reason not to. Look at Vanessa George, fully qualified, CRB checked, experienced nursery nurse.

A pot smoking alcoholic is a crap role model and I'm not condoning doing drugs whilst raising kids, but it doesn't follow that these blokes are sexual predators. It may follow that the kids take up that lifestyle and under-perform in life, which is sad, but it doesn't mean these parents are at fault when their child is killed. This is still a harrowing, horrific loss, and they are still suffering, whatever their lifestyle.

[handcream]

I think drug abuse, being in jail,and being with your daughter before you is far more important than being employed! And fgs - would anyone think this family set up is normal!

This family had real lack of judgement and for seeing what is in front of their eyes. The daughter in particular is known to ss and the police attending violence in her current home hence Tia fleeing to her GM.

TBH - I am getting fed up of trying to find reasons why people do what they do. The GM on This Morning was clearly lacking in geninue common sense. She really couldnt see any red flags to having this man around, right up until the end she was defending him and her choices until of course they found Tia.