Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

News

Gove says lengthen school days and shorten long summer holiday

720 replies

juneau · 18/04/2013 17:42

Here: www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22202694

I think it's a great idea and I'm sure working parents will welcome it. I also think it's bollocks that teachers need the six week summer break to recharge their batteries. Do they work harder or longer hours than other workers who only get four or five weeks a year then?

Having just endured a bored DS1 over the Easter holidays I think any break of more than two weeks is actually pretty dull for kids and I'm sure poorer kids really suffer from lack of stimulation and/or money to do stuff.

OP posts:
surfingbabies · 21/04/2013 11:33

I don't like the idea as I think its important for children to spend time at home, they learn so much from family life.....playing with their siblings is important! They spend enough time at school, they are children not adults Confused

HesterShaw · 21/04/2013 11:39

wherearemysocks, exactly. Back in the hazy recesses of Gove's mind, during this golden educational era of the fifties, school teachers had respect and learning had respect. That is what has changed. The fifties and sixties was when proper social mobility was happening, and education was a means to facilitate this.

Everything has changed now, and forcing children into school for all those hours will not change it back.

ipadquietly · 21/04/2013 15:30

I find it very odd that Gove has children of primary school age. He must know that they're tired by the end of the term, and I would hope that he enjoys spending time with them over the long summer holiday.
He must also know about what they like learning about - what they find exciting and what they want motivates them to learn.

So why does he seem so bloody clueless? Is it all bluster?

LindyHemming · 21/04/2013 15:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

VikingVagine · 21/04/2013 16:57

Seriously, longer days and shorter holidays? How on earth can that be a good thing for anyone?

I'm a teacher in a collège (11 to 15 Yo) in France.

Here they're talking about shortening the days (children currently do 08:00-12:00, 13:30-16:30 Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday, and on Wednesdays they finish at 12:00) and possibly shortening/rearranging the summer holidays (at the moment we begin in the first week of September, the have two weeks off at Halloween, 2 weeks at Christmas, 2 in February, 2 in April, then we break up in the first week of July - the last week of June is not used for teaching).

The pupils are constantly tired and stressed. Many teachers do as little as is legally possible, and the little that they do is sometimes appalling, but they don't lose their jobs unless they actually do something awful (by awful I mean physically hurt a child for example).

A standard teacher does 18 hours teaching, for each hour in front of the class we are expected to do an hour and a half preparation (that is how our salary is worked out), so from an official point of view, seeing as I have 3 extra hours a week teaching, I work a 52.5 hour week, take home ?2000 a month and I have a masters degree. On top of that we regularly have staff meetings, class meeting, department meetings etc. for which I'm not paid extra.

I think I "have it easy" compared to teachers in England.

BoffinMum · 21/04/2013 17:55

Hey, Sarah V, if you are on here, how come your DD appears to be educated in London if your DH flipped this property at a cost of £20,000 to the taxpayer to make it the family's 'second' home?

FWIW I fail to see why he can't commute between London and Surrey on a daily basis anyway. Thousands of people have to do just that, no taxpayer funded second homes for them.

Talkinpeace · 21/04/2013 18:03

she was Chloe74 : not used since our little contretemps
but may have a new name : cannot keep a self obsessed political wife down!

BoffinMum · 21/04/2013 18:05

Not MrsBlurt then???? Wink
She is completely self-obsessed, her life seems to revolve entirely around him, face cream and her thinning hair issues. Or am I being unkind?

gabsid · 21/04/2013 18:19

Was she really? How do you know it was her?

BoffinMum · 21/04/2013 18:33

I don't think it was because I looked her up and she appears to discuss Bristol secondary schools a lot ...

noblegiraffe · 21/04/2013 18:48

Why do you think chloe74 was Mrs Gove? I've had a few discussions with her and from looking at it, she didn't seem to know much about the Ebacc proposals (Gove-levels).

Talkinpeace · 21/04/2013 19:27

noblegiraffe my point exactly!
I was using my other account then (with the 2) but her statements about her work and her kids backed herself into a corner PDQ
I talk about London schools - cos I grew up there....
I may be wrong : ye gods there are two people like that !!!!

Feenie · 21/04/2013 20:44

Having searched a few threads, it looks a good spot to me, Talkinpeace.

EvilTwins · 21/04/2013 21:04

Ooo, I hope it IS her, purely because I've just searched and found a thread where she says that RE is not an academic subject and that the EBacc is a massive improvement on the current system and things like drama and music are pointless and I respond that Gove is an idiot. Grin

Feenie · 21/04/2013 21:06
Grin
LindyHemming · 21/04/2013 21:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ravenAK · 22/04/2013 00:22

Oh no WAY was chloe74 Mrs Gove! That would be far too funny Grin.

Although two people fancying him as much as she obviously did might be even more far-fetched I suppose...

MrsSalvoMontalbano · 22/04/2013 09:52

Why do these threads always get personal? Why not examine the policy on its own merits rather that the childish Gove attacks, which detract from the point.
SFor thjose teachers bleating about the papaerwork, how about getting your union to campaign about the 'pointless admin' rather than using it as an excuse to avoid innovation?
And, no I am not Mrs Gove, not do I have any connection with him/them.

noblegiraffe · 22/04/2013 10:00

What makes you think unions haven't campaigned against pointless admin?? Of course they have. And do.

There was a list drawn up by the unions and agreed with the government that teachers could not be routinely expected to do. Things like photocopying and typing letters.

Gove, of course, is looking to scrap that agreement.
www.guardian.co.uk/education/2013/apr/17/teachers-more-clerical-work-review

Margetts · 22/04/2013 10:19

Bollocks

When will children have time to do things like swimming lessons and football lessons and all the other after school activities children do as they have been from the school syllabus?

Particularly with younger children a longer schools day would not benefit then as there brain quickly reaches saturation point.

Keep the holidays as they are

gabsid · 22/04/2013 10:48

noblegiraffe - what??? My laptop won't let me use your link, but is he expecting teachers to do all the admin as well? Teachers already do long hours in a stressful job in comparisson to a 9-5 job, even with the longer holidays. I have been considering going back to teaching part-time as my youngest will start school in Sept - but I am not sure that would be so wise if you are just pushed around, expected to work 26 hours per day and no thanks but a nice pay cut.

DS (Y3) is coming home from school at 4pm now. He dosen't want any more structured stuff like clubs etc, at the moment he just wants time to do his own thing, he is now back into his Starwars Lego and re-builds the Death Star - that's quite a challenge for an 8 year old and I help him a bit to find the pieces.

But if he got back at 5 pm would he still have to do HW? Or would he just have dinner, watch TV for 30 min, read a bit and go to sleep? They need a bit of time to themselves and I don't think that's wasted time, even if they are just bored and kick a ball against the wall. I need time to reflect and to be by myself.

I think Gove is not really thinking about our DC and their achievement. I think he sees longer school days as a quick way to get more parents into work which he thinks will bring economic recovery. And Bingo! He's a hero!

noblegiraffe · 22/04/2013 12:08

Gabsid, here's the article in full:
"Restrictions that bar classroom teachers from routine administrative tasks such as photocopying and filing could be ended under an independent review of teachers' contracts ordered by the education secretary, Michael Gove.

The School Teachers' Review Body (STRB), chaired by Dame Patricia Hodgson, has been asked by the secretary of state to look at revising teachers' "non-pay conditions of service", including a section on clerical tasks that currently proscribes teachers from ordering supplies, investigating absent pupils or entering data into school databases.

The STRB's remit could also include examining other areas of teachers' working conditions outside pay, such as working hours and attendance, in a move likely to be contested by teachers' unions.

"I believe there is a need to review the framework for non-pay conditions to ensure that it is suited to a high-status profession and gives primacy to teaching and learning," Gove wrote to the STRB, in his letter granting it a remit.

Chris Keates, general secretary of the NASUWT, the largest teachers' union, said the review showed that Gove was "determined to remove any provisions which support teachers in working effectively to raise standards".

She said: "In one day he has issued advice to schools which completely demolishes the teachers' pay framework, and while schools are still reeling from this, he announces in a letter to the review body that he is taking an axe to the remaining conditions of service of teachers."

The latest battle between the DfE and the unions centres on a list of tasks specified in the school teachers' pay and conditions document, the lengthy contract that sets out the detailed terms for teachers employed in state schools in England and Wales.

At issue is appendix four of the document, entitled "administrative and clerical tasks," listing 21 actions that teachers are not required to undertake, ranging from the petty ? collecting money from pupils and parents, and setting up computers ? to the more profound, such as analysing exam performances.

"Teachers shouldn't be forbidden from analysing why their pupils might be struggling, and all teachers who want to improve the reputation of the profession should support sensible reform. Decisions on these issues and things like how best to prepare classes are much better made by teachers on the ground, heads of department, and headteachers," said a government source.

At the same time, the board has been asked to look at pay structures for head teachers and school managers, with an eye to greater flexibility in salaries so that strong candidates can be attracted to run struggling schools, as well as rewarding school leaders at particularly large or complex institutions.

Russell Hobby, general secretary of the National Association of Head Teachers, said his organisation had long called for a review of leadership pay, and believed the rigid link between school size and leadership pay should be loosened to take into account of the challenge of the job.

"We would argue strongly in favour of preserving some structure to protect both heads and governing bodies. Public pay should be transparent and consistent," Hobby said."

Ocelotl · 22/04/2013 12:13

It's a terrible idea and not at all backed by research. Canada, which is more comparable to us than, say, China, is ahead of the UK in school education tables and has 2 months holiday in the summer (1 July-31 Aug). So does Poland, which has the fastest improving education and is overtaking the UK. (And they don't start school at age 4!)
All that will happen is that we'll all have to try to book holidays within a smaller 4-week gap, which will be harder for employers to manage, so we son't get to have holidays with our children. And children will spend most of their life and school, get sick and tired of it sooner and perform worse.

noblegiraffe · 22/04/2013 12:17

One thing that baffles me is why the government is suggesting that teachers being banned from analysing exam results is a bad thing and should be reviewed.

Except teachers have never been banned from analysing exam results, of course they haven't. They have not been required to produce analyses of exam results - someone else has been hired to do the excel spreadsheet jiggling to produce the report of how many girls got A*-C sort of thing.

gabsid · 22/04/2013 12:35

Thanks!!