Gove says lengthen school days and shorten long summer holiday

[juneau]

Here: www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22202694

I think it's a great idea and I'm sure working parents will welcome it. I also think it's bollocks that teachers need the six week summer break to recharge their batteries. Do they work harder or longer hours than other workers who only get four or five weeks a year then?

Having just endured a bored DS1 over the Easter holidays I think any break of more than two weeks is actually pretty dull for kids and I'm sure poorer kids really suffer from lack of stimulation and/or money to do stuff.

what about dc that already leave early , ds3 has sn so has to travel .He leaves house at7.20 not home to 4.30 -4.45 he is year 3 .i often get a child home ready for bed

I'm glad the majority opinion here is against it. I read in a Guardian Blog that actually in whatever Asian country he got this idea from (dont' remember sorry) teachers spend 10-15 hours in front of children, in the UK teachers spend around 22 hours. The argument falls down because actually there isn't a clear link between time spent in the classroom and attainment. Children need time to be children.
I loved having 2 weeks with my children over Easter - I'm a teacher and have the luxury of having school holidays off. I can't wait until Summer Those who can..

As for teachers working conditions, it worries me that he is trying to make our pay and conditions less favourable. I think we really need to do more to attract the brightest and best graduates to teaching, English is very difficult to recruit for at the moment - I wouldn't be an English teacher, the pressure is so high, the workload is mammoth. Senior posts are also very difficult to recruit people to, there is a national shortage of head teachers, because it is such a difficult and yet thankless task few people want to take it on. The risk of getting education wrong is so high - the cost to society if we get it wrong is enormous - yet we seem to want to cut budgets at every turn.

Kids can only take in a certain amount of info so extending the school day will not improve 'performance' or whatever G thinks needs improved. Schools are not for child care.

juneau Thu 18-Apr-13 17:42:23

Here: www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22202694

I think it's a great idea and I'm sure working parents will welcome it.

Still sure, juneau?

I am heartened by the fact that, in between the idiot teacher bashers, pretty much everyone on MN, TES, Telegraph comments and even DM comments is against this.

At the private school I went to we had 8:45-4 school day and longer holidays! I loved my blissful 9 week summer holidays!

piffle trouble is if all schools did that ds3 be leaving about 7am and not home till 5.30 far to much for a child age 7

In Spain and America the summer holidays are around 12 weeks long so our 6 weeks looks paltry in contrast!

A better idea (I think) and this is as a mother of teenagers (as well as younger ones) would be to rearrange the school day for older kids (from puberty) so they go in later and finish later. I read about a school where they trialed this and attendance, punctuality and academic results increased significantly.

Leave primary schools alone. Little ones are so tired after a full day, not to mention by half term and holidays. Teachers nowadays are so personally involved with the kids, not just their education but their wellbeing, health and nurturing that they really do earn their money and holiday entitlement.

Incidentally, why do Parliament recess for Easter and Summer? Should they have their days extended and holidays reduced?

Thanks to those people out there who aren't bashing teachers. From a mum's point of view - we love the holidays, its great for the kids (and me) to chill and play, we def don't get bored. From a teacher's point of view - I work part time and the three days I work, I get to school at 7.45, leave at 5.30 and then when the kids have gone to bed at 7.30 work again until 11. So yes, we do work hard and I work longer hours than anyone I know in the private sector. I would love a 9 to 5 job but don't have the time, energy or confidence to re-train. I'm totally sick of people moaning about how easy teacher have it - if you're not one or don't know one, you haven't got a clue.

Oh my gosh I am a teacher with a leadership role,I love my job and I am passionate about education and raising standards but I have to say I think this is a terrible idea!

Empirical research shows us that learning is most effective and longest enduring when brains are allowed down-time to process and make links and when and when bodies are well rested, relaxed and happy.

If you believe something isn't working effectively, doing the same thing for longer is rarely the answer to improving it- I'm the first to admit that education could be better, and moves by this government to make it so such as making it easier to remove failing teachers have got my vote, however I don't believe this will improve standards at all.

As a society I believe we need to be focusing not just identikit individuals with a bank of knowledge and a list of qualifications but also well adjusted, emotionally balanced and mentally healthy people that can make the world a better place. If children are spending more time in school, they are not maintaining a happy relationship with their families and each other, or having time to pursue their own interests.

If this is purely about childcare, I have to say some of the most unhappy children I have met have lovely, well educated, middle class parents, who never get to see their kids because they are working so hard to provide them with a "good" quality of life.

As for saying teachers have it easy,everyone has been to school and so they all think they could teach and it is easy - it isn't - I would be very interested to see how rates of people remaining in teaching after 5 years compares to other professions. Teachers work much longer and harder than the 9-3.30 that some people imagine; giving up evenings, weekends and their holidays to do their job well. Add to that you are constantly being observed by the harshest critics of all (I mean children not ofsted!)

If teachers were paid per pupil by the hour as babysitters, just for the 9-3.30 that the children are with them, their wage would be astronomically higher than it is now, add to that the fact that children are not just "sat on" but educated too and you will understand why teachers are so offended by the constant politically-driven bashing we are receiving in the media at the moment.

It's totally despicable that Michael Gove uses a teacher bashing agenda to fuel his aims.

Am really hoping it will shoot him well and truly in the foot this time.

Gove believes
he has no interest in Evidence
our only hope is a reshuffle

odd that Mrs Gove has not popped up to defend him. I enjoyed our last sparring match.

odd that Mrs Gove has not popped up to defend him. I enjoyed our last sparring match.

Ooh, really? Do tell.

I'm full time teacher and mum of a 6 and 5 year old. Gove is a complete idiot. He keeps meddling with education, then backs down ,then decides to have a go at something else....meddle, meddle, meddle.
I work really hard and both teachers and children need a long break. Us teachers don't switch off at 5pm. We have to do marking, planning etc in the evenings together with reports, parents meetings etc. It is definately not a 9-5 job.
If the government try to change things, how are they going to pay us for the extra hours, given that our salaries have been frozen for ages?! Also, the longer hours, shorter holidays and increased working age till pension...that's a recipe for a lot of teachers on long term sick leave in their last few years of teaching! Standing up all day, controlling kids and ever changing goalposts. aargh!
My own children are ready for the holidays and are dead on their feet at the end of term. They need to mooch around in their PJ's, watch lots of telly, go to the park and generally slow down. Schools are not free childcare providers...we are there to educate, but also ensure that children have a good work life balance. Gove quotes about the other countries (mainly China) who apparently are educating better than us. Look at those robotic children, who are academic, but have been 'trained' to be that way. Do we really want the UK's children to become academic robots, without having as work/ life balance themselves?!

I'm totally against it. No time to play, pursue your own interests, be alone, spend time with friends and family. I don't think it would help kids learn more- It would be tiring. Kids are not machines, you can't just input data on them all day long. And schools are not childcare, nor training centres for employers.

In my experience of schooling, it doesn't matter if the holidays are long or short, you still need to have a good solid curriculum, and reinforced and supported learning at home.

Parents are the real heroes if there is any advance in literacy or numeracy.

Fwiw my dd gets three months holidays in the summer (yes, 12 weeks) two weeks at Xmas, two weeks at Easter, and one full week for each mid term. Also plenty of half days for teacher training.

That means she's only in school for seven months of the year, and literacy rates and numeracy rates are very high where we are (republic of Ireland).
I suppose the long holidays are a relict system when we were more agricultural, and everyone helped with the harvest, or some such. Not very necessary now we are all becoming more urbanised and 24/7.

I think the only benefit of such long holidays is that we are very imaginative and entrepreneurial, unlike the Asian countries.

I still would love free clubs in the summer and for the other holidays, as these cost us a fortune, otherwise we have to take shorter hours at work, but on the whole, I enjoy my kids company, and I feel the lazy, unscheduled days are precious!

School days are long enough as it is, they could shorten them if anything, i remmeber watching the clock after lunch when i was at school. Id like a shorter summer holiday 4 weeks? and a longer christmas holiday

squirrelnuts I agree with you: the school day is too long already.
I went to school from 8 am to 13.30 when I lived in a tropical country: twas plenty time to learn. My DC in this country left the house at 7.30am didn't come back till 18.00, then had to do home work. They were always tired and had no childhood or scope for exploring the world of ideas and play as far as I could see. Holidays were and are essential. Thats when they read books and messed about in the garden and saw friends and us parents.

That said, the opportunities to read and play and mess about with friends and explore the local landscape safely are not great in many urban environments.

I would actually certainly pull my youngest out of school if his day become any longer as the health implications for him become to much ( am aware not option for everyone )

And after spending a whole term in school with my son every dah when he first started . I take my hat of to teachers as saw the extra work they have to put in that parents don't see

As for shortening summer lengthen Xmas no ty . Xmas is far to cold and misserable at least summer is milder and better chance of getting outside

Lapin and feenie, go away and give your heads a wobble, you crazy kids.

Considering earlier people were saying that I didn't know much about teaching, it appears others are a bit hazy too.

Now then stop jostling, sit down and be quiet.

Ofsted, raise your hands if you think only schools are inspected?

Now raise your hands if you think other training/educational establishments are also inspected?

Well done, the second lot go out and play. If you got it wrong, read this www.gov.uk/government/news/army-apprenticeships-impress-ofsted

and we'll have a retest later.

Oh, forgot. Don't worry if the Senior Instructor/Chief Instructor comes in and sits at the back. They are here to assess me as your Instructor not you, but like to pop in at least once during a course. If they ask you anything ie what you think of the course, its content or how you are treated as as student then answer them honestly.

Remember any points on the course, instructor, instruction aids, food, accomodation... anything really put on your end of course student evaluation.

Oh, and at least it isn't 'peer evaluation' week. I'd have another instructor sat with me.

kids are in school too long and too young already in this country.

I certainly will not be letting my kids stay at school longer than they already do. I have tired children as it is because school is so taxing.

If Gove does this I think he will have a lot of teachers leaving the profession... the holidays are the only good thing about the job

Lazarus- hope you're not that patronising in the classroom. Given that no one here is a mind-reader, and you haven't mentioned what you did previous to your PGCE, that post is somewhat rude.

Good article in the Daily Fail re this.

Interestingly it is mentioned how some independent schools in this country outstrip other countries and come top in the league tables- with holidays a lot longer than the state sector.

Mrs Gove was on mumsnet?

Was it in Relationships? (joke)

Does anyone have any information on how much or how little the education systems of these "top" countries have been messed around by their respective governments?

I suspect that these 'top' countries are also ones where teachers are valued and respected.