Gove says lengthen school days and shorten long summer holiday

[juneau]

Here: www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22202694

I think it's a great idea and I'm sure working parents will welcome it. I also think it's bollocks that teachers need the six week summer break to recharge their batteries. Do they work harder or longer hours than other workers who only get four or five weeks a year then?

Having just endured a bored DS1 over the Easter holidays I think any break of more than two weeks is actually pretty dull for kids and I'm sure poorer kids really suffer from lack of stimulation and/or money to do stuff.

I think very young children spend more than enough time in school, so if messing with the school day it might be an idea to reduce hours for infants (with play taking up the slack), keeping juniors similar to now, and somewhat longer school day for seniors. This would of course be far too complicated!

Wow! I don't usually post on threads but have to echo the views of posters above that say this is a truly terrible idea!! My DC's enjoy school but they (and I) love love love holidays more. I don't understand posters who say that their children get bored whilst off school....swimming, play parks, picnics, playing at home, visiting friends and family amuse mine (age 4 and 7) at the mo, i guess older children are not so easily amused?

I think children spend far too long in school as it is. Again, only have experience of the 4-7 age group. I would seriously consider home educating if the school day were lengthened. I also have a few teacher friends at primary and secondary level who spend a huge amount of time in their 'holidays' working.

windupbird Are you named after the wind-up bird chronicle? I love that book!

Do we know what he is actually suggesting?
9-5? 7-5? 7-7?!
Staffed by teachers who are unpaid? Paid? Staffed by external groups?
Will LSAs, caretakers, cleaners, kitchen staff get paid more?
Can 1265 just be rewritten or is it a case of being given your new contract with more directed hours on and being told to sign it or you're out of a job...?!
When would building work, deep cleaning or site maintenance happen if there are no lengthy breaks in schools.
Could parents take their children out 'unpunished' for term time holidays? Could teachers?
If teachers are only given 5 weeks holiday like everyone else, would they get the same rights to taking time off when they needed it, eg for medical appointments?
Would children whose parents did want to look after them and take them to Brownies after school be allowed? Though, to be honest, all the brownie/cub/scout leaders I've ever met have been teachers so those clubs would probably fold completely anyway.

It seems completely unworkable to me, but will, no doubt, please a minority of working parents who find the summer holiday comes as a big shock to them when they have children.

I have worked in schools for thirty years, but am not a teacher. Just one small point. How on earth would schools fit building projects into shorter summer holidays? It is difficult enough in six weeks. These kinds of things (refurbishing classrooms, redecorating, major repairs etc) have to be done when there are no children on the premises for health and safety reasons. I work for most of the summer holidays and I can tell you that schools are often filled with builders rushing to finish jobs during the six weeks.

Interesting point, BoffinMum - I recognise half the names on that list (Sieghart; Heathcoat-Amory for instance) as members of either political or journalistic/media dynasties. And was there really a little girl called Toffee?!

Not exactly mixing with the hoi polloi, is he?

I like the idea, but with 2 important additions:
1 more teachers
2 more sport & physical activity as part of the school day
Somehow, I doubt these are features of Gove's idea. I think he's probably seeking more hours of learning stuff like Latin!

Completely rubbish idea. As many wise people have said already, the school day is long enough. Staying longer would not mean learning more as kids have had enough by 3/3.30. Teachers are already hugely overloaded and I can't see how extra hours could be afforded when I'm also hearing about TA's being seen as a luxury. My kids get 2 weeks hol and Christmas and Easter which I think is the minimum they need. The six week summer holiday I think is really important as a chance to play, get bored, think of something else to do, spend some family time. Sure its hard if both parents work but I don't think that justifies reducing it. Ultimately school is about education, not just childcare and I'm sorry if that sounds tough. His ideas are frankly dickensian in general and the sooner he's out of education the better imo! Rant over - sorry didn't realise how strongly I felt about this til I started to type

I think the school day is long enough but I agree that school holidays are too long. Although I make a lot of effort to keep DS occupied, by the end of week 1, he is role-playing that he is back at school :)

People are forever praising the Nordic model, but conveniently forget that the Nordic countries have extremely homogeneous societies- in fact Finland is most homogeneous in the world I believe. They also have entirely phonetic language. Bonsoir alludes to this- English takes a heck of a lot longer to learn, even for native speakers! Couple that with the incredibly diverse society we have here, it means that children in the UK actually need longer to become proficient in their country's language, culture and customs before they can begin to apply that learning to the rest of the curriculum subjects.

This may not be a popular statement to make but... in general, the schools that do most well with their pupils (in terms of pupil progress, not necessarily in terms of position in the performance table of % 5A*-C inc E&M) are those that have homogeneous pupil populations, be it all white-UK, all Pakistani muslims, whatever... other than those that are academically selective of course, however it is important to note that the academically selective schools in England have FSM percentages (used here as a crude indicator of wealth/deprivation) far lower than the average of the LAs they are in, and now DFE are using IDACI groups to indicate deprivation it is even easier to see that in fact their populations are homogeneous in terms of socio-economic groups despite being diverse ethnically.

Gove obviously has ADHD.

Having set in motion the Academies and Free Schools programmes, rather than seeing them through properly (regardless of their merits or lack thereof), he is spending his time flitting from one 'thing' to another and generally fiddling and messing about.

One week it's curriculum changes, the next it's rules on adoptions. Then it's the length of the school day - next week it will be head teachers' remuneration.

Wilshaw is no better - now he wants to treat nurseries as if they are higher education institutions.

They both need to move on.

I agree with the comment in the article. The one where it says he is talking more like someone in a 6th form debate rather than a cabinet minister.

Holidays are too long.

As a working parent my daughter has to go to after school club until 5.30/6.00pm so she would be better off with an extended school day, I believe. However what we also need is a greater obligation for employers to allow parents the flexibility to collect children earlier, not necessarily every day, but at least some of the time (so they can share the job with partners or relatives perhaps). The current "right to request flexible working" means nothing as long as employers can "justify" why they can't agree to your request. Many employees are quite capable of working their contracted (number of) hours and doing an excellent job, but struggle with working set hours each day. So more flexibility combined with a slightly longer school day (an extra hour perhaps) would be my suggestion.

Two points.

1. I went to Oxford. Our holidays were 28 weeks long. We managed. (Ok, a bit fatuous to suggest that Oxbridge is representative, but also bloody ridiculous to suggest that success can only be achieved by long terms.)

1. I have a friend who lives in HK. He tells me that there they go to school full time from age 3, usu have additional tutors in a variety of subjects from age 4/5, and progress extremely quickly. However - guess what?! - their attainment drops off massively in late teens because they're so completely burnt out.

DS' school provides breakfast and after school care that extends the school day from 8 am until 6 pm (potentially).

It's great for working parents. I need childcare, so I pay for this.

I don't see why the taxpayer should pay for my childcare needs.

I don't see why teachers should be expected to work longer hours (unless Gove is prepared to pay them more) to provide my childcare.

If this comes in, I'll go off sick. Gove can cover my lessons.

If it comes off it needs an entire rethink. Primary schools would need more than one teacher per class for a start. Holidays would be a nightmare as every school in the country couldn't have the same narrow holidays. Holidays would be fully booked and prices would rocket. If they had different ones then parents could find their DCs with different holidays. Infants would need areas to lie down and have a rest in the afternoons. I am off to bed or I could think of a whole list.

If this comes off I will home end my younger ones until they are about 10yrs old and can cope with a longer day at school!

Home ed

And...
I accept that there are problems around disadvantaged children regressing over the holidays, and that this merits attention. BUT Gove has no basis for comparison to suggest that they would do any better if they were at school for longer instead. Who knows what the effect would be? Surely when faced with a relatively specific problem, the solution should be similarly specific? Instead of rejigging the entire system for everyone, why not offer targeted support at disadvantaged children during the long holiday periods? Oh shit, because that sounds like something Labour might do...

I never thought I would say it but Michael Gove had managed to do what no one else has and made me see that HE might be the only solution to his mad policies!

A friend of mine has just made a good point about MPs' holidays. Perhaps Mr Gove would like to come and tell us about how his attainment is affected by his nine week summer break?