Maggie is Dead.

[Talkinpeace]

at last.

Or there are those who realise there is more to being a decent politician than being the master of the put down.

I was working in 1981 in an office where I lost my job, because I had dared to say that I thought the country had needed a change of government in 1979.

The day I was sacked was the day after someone who held extreme left views was promoted to being a manager.

He had failed his 'A' levels because of his involvement in extreme left politics, and was working for the establishment of a totalitarian state in Britain. He wasn't joking. At the time, a man called Robinson - called Red Robbo in the tabloids was proved to have been paid by Moscow to use tactics to subvert British industry. This was part of the cold war.

In 1982, I went to work for a computer services company. Unfortunately, it provided computer services for a bank. There was a closed shop, sorry, 'union membership agreement'. I had no choice, but to join. If I didn't join, the contributions would have been deducted from my salary, and given to charity. Again there was no choice, the charity would have been the BIFU (banking, insurance and finance union) benevolent fund.

Some 18 months later, on becoming a division of the bank, rather than a separate company, the union rubber-stamped a change to the pension scheme. This scheme changed a contribution of 6% to 0% and the word 'spouse' to 'widow', thus removing the right to a widower's pension from all female members of staff. Rather than fight for the best deal for all staff, they agreed to a deal that gave no rights to the many female part-time staff employed for lunch-time cover.

Re - Glenda Jackson, she is a complete hypocrite. I was always sickened by her stories of growing up in Liverpool. When she was growing up, she lived 10 minutes walk away from where Cynthia Lennon lived. In Hoylake. Less than 5 minutes walk away from where Glenda lived was the home of Selwyn LLoyd, the MP for Wirral. 10 minutes walk away from their house, would have put you on the footpath leading on to the Royal Liverpool Golf Course. Up until 1974, Hoylake was in Cheshire.

She is a 'professional' Scouser, as Harold Wilson was a professional Yorkshireman - he was a pupil at Wirral Grammar School, in the constituency of Bebington, for many years a Tory seat, under Barry Porter (from memory).

In 1974, a friend at school, told me her parents had stopped putting up a poster supporting him - their garden was on a corner on the road leading to Bebington Village. Someone supporting free speech had thrown a brick through their sitting room window.

'Or there are those who realise there is more to being a decent politician than being the master of the put down.'

But that is why the public voted Thatcher in on a landslide twice. Kinnock tried to put her down quite often at the dispatch box, but if you go to youtube you can see hgow she defeated him time and time again by the clarity and force of her arguments and opinions.

She knew she was right, he knew she was right and most importantly the public knew that she was right and the left was wrong.

There is no doubt things needed changing. Kinnock realised this too - he angered a lot of the far left loons in his speech against Liverpool City Council in 1985. And he abandoned unilateral disarmament. Unfortunately, I believe that much of the anti-Kinnock sentiment was anti-Welsh, almost racist, nicely illustrated by the Sun and their "boyo" comments. You will probably disagree with that, however. And I also think that had he not died prematurely, then John Smith would have proved to be a proper vote winner (though after Thatcher admittedly)

Thatcher never touched Remploy, she never closed down jobs in Remploy for disabled people. It was Labour that began the policy of cutting jobs for disabled people in Remploy and it has been carried on by the Coalition.

And uet some Labour MPs and Labour councillors call her heartless.

Yes, John Smith would have been a good Prime Minister.

Yes, 'The Welsh Windbag', and other insults. That wouldn't be accepted today. I always quite liked him, but the press hated him.
And I agree about John Smith too, had he not died he would have been the next Labour PM.
And he would never have gone into Iraq.

Blimey. We agree on something.

(@ Claig rather than LBE)

Lots of these people celebrating Thatcher's death weren't even born when she was in power.

They are an indication of the divide and hatred we have in this country between a group of activists whose values are the opposite of the majority and our middle classes.

Thatcher's death has brought them out into the open and the public can see the hatred not only of Thatcher, for she was only one woman, but of the values of the majority of the people.

Just a quick one, only read the first two pages. This woman allowed an awful lot of you to become homeowners. Something that you wouldn't have thought of in the 70's. I am not sure i agree but by my nickname, you know what I think.

How many of us came from bought council houses and grew up thinking that one day we could be a prime minister! I did and never ever voted Tory but I didn't ever think I couldn't get on in a mans (Freemasons) world. I did and yes it's tough, especially when those babies arrive. I have been static recently because of that. But I am about to show my daughter what she can achieve if one tries!

Thatcher took away my home. My mother was made redundant in one of Thatcher's recessions in the mid 80s, became ill after an operation went wrong so couldn't go out and get another job immediately, and we lost our house. (Lots of other people fared even worse, of course - when my Mother recovered she was eventually able to find another job. But it has had long-term consequences.)

Fair enough for those that bought their own homes.
But the money made should have been invested in social housing.
And we now have a huge housing crisis, not enough social housing and a lot of private landlords making a huge profit, many of whom bought up cheap council homes.
And young couples who will never own their own home.
So basically, IMO her legacy is still here today.

I do think the council house sell off was a mistake, with many things in the government of that day it was for short term gains. The houses were sold so cheaply and no re-investment was made, so what were they thinking would happen to the next generation? yy I know Labour didnt build council houses later either but why no generation of new homes or future plan then?

To be fair the last government did encourage the building of new social housing. Not council houses, though, and not nearly enough of them.

I think now any new development has to build a proportion of social housing in thier developments, is that right?

But, although the sell off was good at the time for the people living in them, I think its left a massive amount of people needing social housing.

That was the case under the last government but this government has seriously weakened the requirement to include social housing - it's pretty much gone, in effect.

There is such a backlog needed for social housing, in London its pretty much new flats being built which are really quite small for families, i despair tbh.

Thatcher is being offered a right royal send off or almost. Some of the population, a sizeable number, are making their protest known that they did not enjoy the eulogising of Cameron and other MPs and do no think the pomp of her send off is wholly appropriate as she has as many detractors as supporters. "Ding Dong" - a protest call to help Tories realise they do not have a mandate to privatise the NHS etc. It is important people protest so that this other popular voice is heard.Also important All politicians listen to this - it is real sentiment

Well said.

No, absolutely not. The Ding Dong is disgusting. Riot if you want at our current government et al but do not, ever intrude on the funeral of anyone. It's vile and abhorrent. Her policies and stuff can be discussed and always could have, but to hijack the death of someone within a week of their funeral is beyond measure.

Somebody called Burgled1 put an apposite comment beneath a 'Ding Dong the Witch is Dead' Youtube clip (it's very well done, by the way) - he suggested the funeral should be privatised, with adverts on the coffin - it's what Maggie would have wanted!
I don't think there would be as much hooha as there is about the impending funeral if Pudding Face hadn't decided to turn it into a state funeral in all but name. Of course it shouldn't be any more special than any other ex Prime Minister's funeral. She was widely hated (as well as being a plaster saint to the Daily Mail).

About social housing - in Edinburgh there's something called The Quarter Mile. It used to be a hospital, but it is prime land and it was bought by developers to make flats and offices (the hospital went out of town, a 20-minute drive away at least, with huge parking costs. But I digress).

There is a handy map on the railings showing where the different buildings are in the new development. Only one of them is designated 'Affordable' housing. So what does that make everything else???

Not blaming Thatcher for that of course.

However, in the Guardian yesterday, there were some excellent articles about her legacy. (I haven't read the thread through yet, so someone else might have referred to them. Sorry.)

Some excellent journalism here, Claig, specially for you.

The Thatcher effect: What changed and what stayed the same, by James Ball
www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/12/thatcher-britain

Thatcher?s death has Britain peering back through time
www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/12/thatcher-britain

Thatcher the politician was a nightmare. But I salute Thatcher the woman, by Deborah Orr
www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/12/margaret-thatcher-politician-salute-woman

Claig won't click on a Guardian link :)