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News

Maggie is Dead.

353 replies

Talkinpeace · 08/04/2013 12:55

at last.

OP posts:

Report

HesterShaw · 15/04/2013 11:47

twofingers, yes according to some, if you're not a fan of Maggie, that makes you a disrespectful, grave dancing Trot (i see the DM has become fond of the word Trot in recent days, horrid little rag). And moreover if you dislike the DM, that must make you a fully paid up member of the Guardianista.

Grey areas? Fuck them.

It doesn't occur to them there are other opinions and options.

noddyholder · 15/04/2013 11:55

Agree Hester

FreedomOfTheTess · 15/04/2013 12:09

twofingers - absolutely agree. You hate the Tories, so you must be Labour. Says who?!

I'm more than happy to share my voting record with people:

2001 General Election (my first GE vote) - Blair (I didn't hate him at that point obviously)

2005 General Election - Spoilt paper (I'd rather go along and spoil my paper, as opposed to not going to vote at all, as at least a spoilt ballot is me voicing my opinion that none of them were worth my vote)

2010 General Election - Independent candidate

I couldn't vote for Blair again in 2005, because of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the latter of which my cousin became one of the first UK causalities of. I certainly couldn't vote Tory, it stands against everything I believe in, which shocks people as I come from a background people assume would make me a Tory. And with Charles Kennedy as leader of the Lib Dems, they weren't getting my vote!

As for 2015, who knows, but right now I could see me voting independent again (if we get an independent candidate again that year). Ed Milliband has moments of really impressing me, but then he has moments that make me think I couldn't vote for him.

I know some people think a vote for an independent candidate, or a smaller party, is a "wasted vote" but I don't think any vote is a wasted vote.

NB: I may have voted Labour in 2001, but that doesn't make me Labour, I don't affiliate with any party.

HesterShaw · 15/04/2013 12:30

I voted for labour in 1997, as did a huge number of people who had never done before or ever done since. Since then I have voted for LibDem - it's either them or the Tories in this part of the world, and they have have represented the south west well over the years in my opinion - but after the Coalition government, I certainly won't be doing again. If there's an Independent, I'll vote for them, or maybe Green. God knows the natural world needs as much help as it can get.

That's the thing see? Someone's voting habits can change. Just because they are not one thing, doesn't make them another thing.

claig · 15/04/2013 14:45

'That's the thing see? Someone's voting habits can change.'

Exactly. I voted Labour in 1997. I fell for the spin, just like millions of others.

But I never fell for the spin of global warming. Thatcher also changed her mind on key issues and one of them was on global warming. Initially, Thatcher fell for the frauds' spin on climate catastrophe. She never realised their game. But Thatcher was always a real thinker and she soon cottoned on to what they were all about and she changed her mind. That shows how Thatcher was no fraud and did not need to spin. It is a shame that her climate change scepticism never became news. Maybe the frauds kept it out of the media on purpose, lest it sink their plans.

Very interesting article in the Mail on how Thatcher was able to change her mind on key issues. Booker says that the ability of Thatcher to change her mind also sets her apart from many other politicians, who maintain the spin instead of recycling it in the bin. So Thatcher did make u-turns on major issues.

'Lady Thatcher had already written, under the heading ?Hot air and global warming?, what amounted to a complete recantation of her earlier views, voicing precisely those fundamental doubts over the warming panic that were later to become familiar.

Pouring scorn on what she called ?the doomsters?, she questioned all the main scientific assumptions that had been used to drive the scare

...

She recognised how distortions of the science had been used to mask an anti-capitalist, Left-wing political agenda that posed a very serious threat to human progress and prosperity.

...

But the fact that on these two great issues she came so radically to change her mind is yet another measure of the difference that has set her apart from all those political pygmies who have followed.'

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/margaret-thatcher/9990332/Margaret-Thatcher-On-two-of-the-great-issues-the-lady-was-indeed-for-turning.html

claig · 15/04/2013 14:48

Sorry it is A Daily Telegraph article by Christopher Booker that was linked to by a Daily Mail web page.

noddyholder · 15/04/2013 14:48

Such a shame Clegg was led by his ego If he had not jumped into bed with the tories the Lib Dems would have been in a different place 2014

HesterShaw · 15/04/2013 14:57

We are not talking about "global warming" (thoroughly outdated phrase used by no one except people who like to say things like "Ha! Global warming indeed!" after a day of snow). You have made your feelings on mad made climate change perfectly clear on other threads, and also your opinions about anyone who expresses concern for the enviromment or wildlife. And no, I haven't been stalking you - it's just that you tend to post such very long, frequent posts that I remembered them.

Climate change is indeed a contentious topic (despite 90% of climatologists broadly agreeing). But you seem to know all about the life, the universe and everything.

Why do you wish to turn the subject round? Is it because there seems to have been a bit of a consensus reached with the last few posts?

HesterShaw · 15/04/2013 14:58

Ironic typo again - man made, not mad made.

HesterShaw · 15/04/2013 15:00

And besides, we are not talking about Thatcher herself being able to change her mind. (Hurrah for Thatcher).

The point was that just because someone doesn't vote Tory or think Maggie Thatcher deserves a £10 million funeral, it doesn't make them a vindictive Red. There a several options.

claig · 15/04/2013 15:06

'Why do you wish to turn the subject round?'

No, I thought it was interesting that Thatcher also changed her mind and did in fact make u-turns. She was for turning when she had done some learning. She was flexible in her thought and admitted it when she had got things wrong.

claig · 15/04/2013 15:07

'Ironic typo again - man made, not mad made.'

Freudian slip?

claig · 15/04/2013 15:10

To me, the fact that Thatcher could schange her mind on issues as significant as Europe and as important in the sense of changing the way of life of people as climate change, makes Thatcher even greater than I thought she was.

HesterShaw · 15/04/2013 15:14

Freudian slip?

No, just a genuine typo. If hacking my own digits off would undo it, I would :)

Lots of people here admit when they had got it wrong too. For example, our local MP I always thought was an honest and decent man, but I've learned things about him which means he can whistle for my vote next time. It makes me sad really.

claig · 15/04/2013 15:15

'The point was that just because someone doesn't vote Tory or think Maggie Thatcher deserves a £10 million funeral, it doesn't make them a vindictive Red. There a several options.'

Nobody said it did. We are all of a consensus that disagreement and difference of opinions is what democracy is all about. Some of us, however, thought that those engaging in "death parties" and handing out "death cakes" and actually celebrating her death, were acting distastefully.

claig · 15/04/2013 15:18

'Lots of people here admit when they had got it wrong too.'

I agree, we all get things wrong, and I thought it was also interesting that Thatcher herself got things wrong as well, was taken in by "experts" who sold policies to her, and eventually saw the light and did what was right.

HesterShaw · 15/04/2013 15:19

YES INCLUDING ME AS I MADE ABUNDANTLY CLEAR AND AS DID ALMOST EVERYONE ELSE. God!

I mentioned my friend with the champagne in South Wales as an illustration of how strongly people feel and for what reasons. Just because he is my friend, it doesn't mean I too had champagne on ice for a decade.

claig · 15/04/2013 15:20

In a way, it shows yet again, how Thatcher was in a sense, one of us and not one of them, or as Booker says

"she came so radically to change her mind is yet another measure of the difference that has set her apart from all those political pygmies who have followed"

HesterShaw · 15/04/2013 15:20

Can I just ask you, do you think everyone who voted for anyone except Thatcher during the Thatcher years was misguided, for want of a better word?

Because apart from in places like Zimbabwe, very politicians return 100% of the vote.

claig · 15/04/2013 15:21

HesterShaw, I never said you were behaving like that. I am talking about the people who had "death parties".

claig · 15/04/2013 15:25

'Can I just ask you, do you think everyone who voted for anyone except Thatcher during the Thatcher years was misguided, for want of a better word?'

Certainly not. Everyone has to make their own choices about which issues are important and where spin lies. I look back and think that I was misguided when I fell for New Labour spin in 1997 and voted for them.

Politics is about ideas and also seeing through spin and understanding hidden agendas. Everyone understands these things differently.

HesterShaw · 15/04/2013 15:28

Ah well.

I think I'm getting drawn into a bit of a personal spat with you now, claig so will withdraw.

I disagree with almost everything you write, yet respect your right to write it and all that. All the best :)

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claig · 15/04/2013 15:32

HesterShaw, I take nothing personally. They are all just ideas up for debate. I agree with many of the things you write, just not all things. All the best

HesterShaw · 15/04/2013 15:34

I take things personally all the time

See you on another thread where no doubt we'll disagree again.

claig · 15/04/2013 15:35

No doubt we will agree again. Agree to disagree.

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