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Original poster

Why are so many people on MN so anti benefit bashing?

389 replies

Bearbehind · 04/04/2013 19:09

Genuine question- although I am well aware I will probably get flamed for this.

Osbourne's comments in the wake of the Philpotts's about benefits supporting lifestyles which are disagreeable to most tax payers today has touched a nerve with many for varying reasons.

I've always been of the opinion that benefits should be sufficient for the basic necessities but shouldn't cover luxuries like cigarettes, alcohol, Sky, mobile phones or holidays, as they shouldn't be an alternative to working (obviously only for those people capable of working) yet so many threads on here say its none of our business to question what benefits are spent on?

Why is it so many people are happy for their taxes to fund the luxuries listed above for others when they can't afford some of them for themselves after paying tax!? Am I missing something?

OP posts:
BenjaminButton172 · 04/04/2013 22:50

Madame i think you need to go back and read what i wrote and then read Grow's comment as it was in response to what i said.

Grow wasnt having a go at people on jsa, just stating a fact. You can not work full time and claim jsa. That is all that was said.

GrowSomeCress · 04/04/2013 22:50

Yes. Exactly. I don't even know what you're talking about, and why you were attacking me for something I didn't say.

MadameDefarge · 04/04/2013 22:55

I will reread then.

MadameDefarge · 04/04/2013 22:57

and apologies in advance if I misread

Tortington · 04/04/2013 23:06

the question you should ask is
why is it ok for millions of people to be affected like this - and the day after the queen gets more of our tax money and very soon millionnaires will get a tax break to the tune of £1000 per day.

why is the NHS being privatised

why are the government looking at scrapping minimum wage

why do the govt expect 21 people - to work for free on workfare in the SAME homebase store - yet wont give them a wage?

becuase its ok to fuck the poor up the arse - go on osborne stick it in there - then go french kiss your rich business friends whilst you make the unemployed work for free - whilst paying your good friends who find them jobs disporportionate amounts, whilst maximising your good business friend owners profit.

IshtarisntEaster · 04/04/2013 23:07

To answer the OP, because they're decent people who find it completely disgusting that rich men would try to "other" people who are unemployed or disabled by focusing on the tiny minority of people who cheat?

Because they're not stupid?

Because they're not mean-minded?

That's the 3 reasons that spring instantly to mind, I'm sure there are loads of others.

Tortington · 04/04/2013 23:08

oh but a poor person smoking is worthy of a daily fail headline.

i cannot for the life of me understand this obsession with the fuck all the poor are given - whilst no-one has even raised an eyebrow at tory party mobile phone emperor donators who don't pay their taxes in this country.

joiemecconue · 04/04/2013 23:08

It's a necessary evil, the minority of claimants abusing a system mostly used by a genuine and deserving majority. What is the alternative? Cause a lot of people to suffer just in case a very few profit unfairly? I find it very difficult to care if some people cheat when there are so many more serious social injustices at stake.

shufflehopstep · 04/04/2013 23:22

MrsV - last post I promise. You can make your own mind up but the court costs would come out of the money you would be awarded if you won. Obviously, speak to someone in more detail and get more advice but from that comment alone, I imagine you'd have a case. The burden of proof is on them, not you. As I said, if you had a decent case, the company might pay up rather than going to court. It's worth speaking to someone about it. Ring ACAS

Pan · 04/04/2013 23:24

It's social engineering, by way of the Tories. I'm a bit surprised people didn't get that in 2010. We voted these fuckers in. We can also vote these fuckers out again.

MrsVamos · 04/04/2013 23:26

shuffle

Have sent you a pm. Smile

Darkesteyes · 04/04/2013 23:36

Because OP it causes attitudes like this....

DarkesteyesThu 04-Apr-13 22:44:19

I experienced first hand today the kind of attitudes that are being enforced.
A few years back we had a domestic abuse murder in the town where i live. A woman and her young child.
Today i overheard two people discussing the Philpot case and the conversation then focused on a local case.
the words were "they are just council house scum"
yes those were the words spoken about a dead woman and her dead child. Just because they were claiming benefits.
And these words were spoken by a woman who also has had problems with a controlling ex.
But the woman who spoke these words isnt a claimant so her logic is that she herself is an abuse victim but the woman who was murdered isnt. No she is just council scum just because she claimed benefits.
As i left the coffee shop i felt like screaming. its fucking despairing

TapselteerieO · 04/04/2013 23:38

10 lies were told about welfare says it better than me

"7. Claimants are pulling a fast one

No. Less than 1% of the welfare budget is lost to fraud. But tax avoidance and evasion is estimated to run to £120bn."

Sonnet · 04/04/2013 23:45

deadwomanwalking whilst the thread has moved on I feel I have to comment on your post of approx page 4..

If the government had got it right years ago and helped you stay in work for the last 12 years then your families prospects would have been better when your Dh lost his job.
Not having a go at your circumstances you understand just a rant at the shortsightedness of the government

Sonnet · 04/04/2013 23:47

Darkest eyes I could scream with you really I could

Flojobunny · 04/04/2013 23:47

There is a huge difference between the amount of money a single person gets who is on JSA and a single parent with a couple of kids.
Something needs to be done, as the benefits system is all wrong and unfair.
But I have no idea what.
Sadly neither does the government.
But I am pro bedroom tax and glad that at least they are trying.

niceguy2 · 04/04/2013 23:49

"Why is it ok for millions of people to be affected like this - and the day after the queen gets more of our tax money and very soon millionnaires will get a tax break to the tune of £1000 per day."

The queen has got extra because of a change in how the money is worked out. It's now based upon how much profit the Crown estate makes which is the money they give over to the treasury. Contrary to popular belief, the royal family give a lot more to the state than they receive back.

The 'millionaire tax break' I think you are referring to is utter spin from Miliband and co based on an increase in income tax that Labour said when introduced would be 'temporary'.

"why is the NHS being privatised"

It's not.

"why are the government looking at scrapping minimum wage"

It's not. The government has merely asked the low pay commission to consider the impact of any increase on the economy. A fact I'm surprised wasn't considered earlier.

"why do the govt expect 21 people - to work for free on workfare in the SAME homebase store - yet wont give them a wage?"

No idea about this one. Got a link?

Darkesteyes · 04/04/2013 23:50

OP have you ever considered the fact that someone that you see "working and claiming JSA" might be on workfare.
Google it cos quite frankly......i cant be fucked.

Flojobunny · 04/04/2013 23:55

They are not working for free are they? I thought they were working to keep their benefits.
And clearly you havent tried to get voluntary work recently. People are desperately trying to find that also, in the hope it will lead to a job.

expatinscotland · 05/04/2013 00:12

'They are not working for free are they?'

They are costing the employer nothing, and in fact, the employer may even get a cherry for taking them on.

'The benefits system is wrong and unfair.'

You think it's fair that huge for-profit corporations get employees for free and possibly kick backs for doing so and cut real jobs because they get free labour? You think that's right that you the taxpayer should be subsidising them like that by paying out benefits whilst they pay nothing or even get more money from you for this practice?

You think it's right and fair that your money subsidises a canteen and a fucking bar for MPs to the tune of £6m/annum on top of their £15/day meal allowance, £400 for groceries, free home in London, and huge expenses on top of £64K salary and 12 weeks holiday?

You think that's fair and right?

Pan · 05/04/2013 00:14

niceguy - the NHS IS being privatised, steadily and comprehensively. Very little of what we thought was public in the NHS isn't any more.
It's a big part of the Tory's agenda. Cut cost, cut services and so drive folk to private insurance, a la the USA.
If that has by-passed you I'm surprised.

Flojobunny · 05/04/2013 00:18

No expat I don't. But like I said I don't have the answers. There are lots of changes I would like to make but like the government changes, there will always be knock on effects. They can't possibly please everyone.

mumblecrumble · 05/04/2013 00:23

I think we are on beenfits.... we get child benefit, about a fivder a week in tax credits. I got JSA and their excellent support for 6 months (love our local Job centre) DH is on a low wage in health and social sector. I am job hunting as I was made redundant, getting some supply teaching work but little jobs.

We feel the system was made to help us as we fully intend to be paying more back into when I am teaching again.

Woohooo for benefits, they are helping us. :)

Itchyandscratchy · 05/04/2013 00:28

Here's another good article dealing with FACTS about benefits and what a pilo'shite most of the welfare-state-leads-to-murder spouters should be sat in front of with their eyelids sewn to their foreheads.

Yes, THAT'S how frustrating it is to continually read opinions like those of the op. So read away!

Twentytotwo · 05/04/2013 00:36

I think there is an important division here.

There are people whose attitude is 'well you shouldn't have had children if you can't afford them.' They see individual responsibility and self reliance as moral issues and believe that benefits 'subsidize' lazyness and poor lifestyle choices.

Then there are people who want to see those children fed regardless of the choices their parents have made, because children need food and self righteous indignation doesn't fill stomachs.