Was the Daily Mail right to call Mick Philpott a vile product of the Welfare System?

[Notsoyummymummy1]

Can we say that benefits create this kind of man? I don't think so!

I obviously haven't heard the whole trial but no way was she a victim!

But the current benefit system still enabled him to sit on his arse, having lots of children and watching tv for several years.

He is/was a cock lodger.

The thing that enabled him to sit on his arse watching tv etc. etc. was his ability to control women. Had the money his children received in benefits been spent in the way it was intended he would not have been able to profit from them at all.

"I think the primary factor was his abusive nature and desire to control his female partners; the benefits money was simply an unforeseen bonus.
If he hadn't obtained the money that way he'd have found another"

Hahahaha. You have honestly got to be joking.

Okay, so how else would he have funded his house, and his car, and his drink, and his drugs and his sky tv and everything else that he enjoyed for many years without all of his benefit money?

Yes, in the same way that Harold Shipman was a product of the National Health Service.

I know, let's get rid of the NHS, then no doctors or medical professionals would ever murder their patients again.

It's all the NHS's fault.

The same way this company director funded his lifestyle? VAT fraud to the tune of £1 million?

Or this barrister, with his £1 million home?

Or this bloke from Dundee, who copped over £5.6 million?

As you can see, VAT fraud is rather more lucrative than benefits. Haven't seen any calls for root and branch reform of VAT legislation on the back of it. Bit more enforcement wouldn't hurt, but no one's talking about debating the VAT system in parliament because of it.

Oh look I just found someone who is the product of doing business

www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr/02/christopher-foster-inquest

Okay, so how else would he have funded his house, and his car, and his drink, and his drugs and his sky tv and everything else that he enjoyed for many years without all of his benefit money?

illegally?

Would you like a list of the ways that people with his personality traits like to make money?

Is it possible to have a class action for libel on behalf of everyone in receipt of welfare benefits?

What the DM said was vile. The welfare state doesn't create misogynist, violent, controlling men.

Patriarchy does that.

If he hadn't committed this terrible crime - does anyone agree that the way he used the benefits system was deemed OK in their eyes?

Okay, so how else would he have funded his house, and his car, and his drink, and his drugs and his sky tv and everything else that he enjoyed for many years without all of his benefit money?

Through crime, almost certainly. Do you think that if he'd access to one supply of money taken away he wouldn't have sought an alternative - one that required least effort for maximum gain? I can't honestly believe you'd think he would have (a) stopped having children or (b) sought gainful employment.

I can understand the notion that this was in order to keep hold of the benefits
However I genuinely do not think was the driving factor in this ludicrous plan. He was outraged that she had left him and she had his children

Agree with this very much MrsDeVere

I actually don't think he would have had so many children if the benefits weren't there. Agree he would have turned to crime though

If he hadn't committed this terrible crime - does anyone agree that the way he used the benefits system was deemed OK in their eyes?
Of course it's not okay.

I agree Parsing but OOH none of the men in your links have caused the accidental death of their children by arson. Surely loss of life is irreversible whereas the VAT could be paid back from their assets.

They are all clever, scheming and dishonest.

So, shouldn't therefore the benefits system be looked at? (As indeed it is)

Just found a vile product of the police force.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/policeman-slaughtered-family-then-killed-himself-281055

Let's have a really good look at the police force shall we.

So, shouldn't therefore the benefits system be looked at? (As indeed it is)
That is not a logical conclusion. They are two completely separate issues.

Fucktidia's 'police' example is a good one, handcream. Do you think the police should be the subject of an investigation, just in case?

He probably would have had exactly the same number of children without the benefits system.

It's just he wouldn't have been living with them.

I do honestly think there will be changes partly because of this man. Whether we like it or not - it has such a high profile. Ironically we will probably be paying more to keep him in prison and ensuring he is kept safe from other prisoners.

"I do honestly think there will be changes partly because of this man. Whether we like it or not - it has such a high profile."

I think Gideon just came. While Paul Dacre held his cock.

As has already been pointed out, the changes have already begun. The rhetoric around this case will, however, allow the press and politicians to pull the wool over more people's eyes and convince them that there's a connection between benefit recipients and criminality. (Except, as has been shown by the outrage over the DM headlines, they do fortunately underestimate the intelligence of the public which has shown itself unwilling to be manipulated in this instance. Well, mostly.)

"Do you think that if he'd access to one supply of money taken away he wouldn't have sought an alternative - one that required least effort for maximum gain?"

Yes, probably so. This particular supply of money though enabled him to sit on his arse watching telly for most of the day, drinking, taking drugs and abusing those poor women he lived with.

And all without hardly lifting a finger. Why is that so hard to accept?

What merrymouse said.

If he hadn't been able to claim the child benefit, I'm pretty sure he would just have happily spread his seed but then refused to support the kids at all, as any number of other feckless fathers have done. Then probably got his money either by cocklodging with someone on a reasonable income and extorting all their wages, or through crime.

And when his girlfriend left he would probably just have taken revenge in a different way - tried to stab her, like the earlier girlfriend, maybe, or just set fire to her house (with her kids in) instead of his, perhaps.

Meanwhile, the remaining children and their mothers would have been the ones suffering in poverty.

You think that would be an improvement?