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Original poster

Baby denied treatment by NHS because family have overstayed

520 replies

wonderstuff · 14/03/2013 22:12

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/03/13/erbs-palsy-baby-sanika-ahmed-denied-treatment-_n_2866288.html

Baby will be permanently disabled, losing use of one arm if she isn't treated soon. NHS trust are refusing treatment, because although the baby was born here her fathers work visa ran out several years ago. They are being supported by an uncle. I think that the child should be treated, she is innocent and I'm really saddened by the number of people posting comments by this article saying they agree with the NHS stance on this.

What do you think?

OP posts:
SisterMonicaJoan · 15/03/2013 18:27

flatbread "Like I said, if any of you take any benefits from the state, you ought to be ashamed of yourself. You want freebies for yourself, but will deny others. Frankly, this child, who is blameless, is more morally entitled to state handouts than most of the lazy work-shirkers on benefits"

Benefits = freebies?? Quite frankly, your tone and comments are insulting to the many families who need benefits to survive or top up their income to a living wage.

As a pp said, if this were a 40 year old person who was an illegal immigrant we wouldn't have this thread.

SisterMonicaJoan · 15/03/2013 18:30

Trazzle Many of the articles online reporting this case state that they family have only now applied for leave to remain.

flatbread · 15/03/2013 18:31

I definitely think that nhs should pay. And I pay for nhs through my taxes, so I should have a say in how my money spent (hint, not on £500k to payoff a whistleblower)

I think everyone, except the inept nhs managers filled with self-importance know that the nhs is terribly inefficient and bloated with useless pencil-pushers.

I would like fewer nhs managers, especially like those on this thread. Anyone who lacks compassion for a child suffering, doesn't deserve to work in healthcare

One thing I do take away from this thread, is that the ones who are saying parents are responsible for their children are the first ones to say 'but what about the innocent children?' when we discuss cutting the welfare state and their own benefits.

I hate hypocrisy and there is so much of it on this thread.

SPBInDisguise · 15/03/2013 18:34
Shock
scottishmummy · 15/03/2013 18:34

Hypocrisy?like you're not willing to dig deep or make voluntary contribution
But feel nhs should fund this?why aren't you fundraising if so aghast
So globally yiu think nhs should pay,but haven't said what you'll do if so upset

SPBInDisguise · 15/03/2013 18:35

did you ever think that it's compassion for the many children the NHS is funded to treat that means that people who understand that money is finite say that this child should not have their treatment paid for by the NHS.

Exaplin to me why the NHS should pay rather than BUPA please?

Trazzletoes · 15/03/2013 18:37

Sorry monica I hadn't seen that. I stand corrected.

SPBInDisguise · 15/03/2013 18:40

flat, please can you explain why you feel the NHS has an obligation to treat but not BUPA? Or why the NHS has an obligation to pay but not Tesco?

flatbread · 15/03/2013 18:43

Because NHS is funded by us, and we as a state, have an obligation to take care of the vulnerable. Isn't that obvious?

It is not as if we expect Barrett to provide housing for the homeless, we do it through the state.

scottishmummy · 15/03/2013 18:44

What has the expat community here in uk done for family?have they fundraised

SPBInDisguise · 15/03/2013 18:45

But if we had an obligation it would be a statutory duty of the NHS as main healthcare provider. It isn't. Because it simply isn't practical for UK taxpayers to provide free healthcare for everyone in the world

scottishmummy · 15/03/2013 18:45

Flat you're the hypocrite harrumphing nhs should pay and morality but you don't donate or fundraise?

expatinscotland · 15/03/2013 18:46

'One thing I do take away from this thread, is that the ones who are saying parents are responsible for their children are the first ones to say 'but what about the innocent children?' when we discuss cutting the welfare state and their own benefits.

I hate hypocrisy and there is so much of it on this thread.'

Hypocrisy? The welfare state and benefits exist to those who qualify and are entitled to access them. That includes people who came here as immigrants and used legal channels to gain leave to remain. The NHS provides healthcare free at point of service to those who qualify and are entitled to access it. This includes quite a few classes of immigrants, including full-time students and those on work permits.

NEITHER, however, is accessible to people who are not legally in this country in non-emergency cases.

Yet according to you, anyone who points this out is a work-shy scounger and hypocrite. Hmm

SPBInDisguise · 15/03/2013 18:48

Or if you believe that we do have an obligation, politicise this. get some economist somewhere to calcualte what it would do for your taxes if that were to happen. Because you can't base healthcare on the cuteness of the recipient and treat cases that happen to pop up in the media.

flatbread · 15/03/2013 18:56

The argument for a welfare state is fundamentally a moral one. That innocent children should not suffer for the mistakes or recklessness of their parents.

It is first and foremost a social contract, and then codified in law.

If you cannot see that an innocent child should not be denied healthcare in the country she is living in then you don't deserve to benefit from taking from others.

I am happy to have my taxes benefit others less fortunate because I see it as a moral obligation to help those worse off than me.

But it seems those who are more than happy to take from taxpayers are incredibly righteous about others who are in a more vulnerable position.

I imagine that this dad was working and paid taxes and NI contributions. Which went towards people on benefits sitting on their asses and tut-tutting about how we shouldn't help this child.

Mrsdavidcaruso · 15/03/2013 18:58

Flatbread I pay for the NHS through my taxes and my baby DIED due to the closure of my local hospital A&E. Do you not think that if I had say in how 'my' money was spent I would have demanded it was used to keep the unit open.

However like the rest of tax payers I know that I have no claim to that money it's used not for me but for everybody who needs health care and who in turn pay their Tax to help fund me and my family when we need it.

expatinscotland · 15/03/2013 18:58

'I imagine that this dad was working and paid taxes and NI contributions. Which went towards people on benefits sitting on their asses and tut-tutting about how we shouldn't help this child.'

Because everyone on benefits sits on their arses and tuts. Hmm Because this person was definitely working and paying taxes for the 3-4 years he was illegally staying in the country. Hmm

You have an active imagination.

SPBInDisguise · 15/03/2013 18:59

Sorry who are the people on benefits that are tut tutting on this thread?
And there are many many vulnerable people in the world - can you really help them all?

expatinscotland · 15/03/2013 19:00

'If you cannot see that an innocent child should not be denied healthcare in the country she is living in then you don't deserve to benefit from taking from others.'

She's not being denied, her parents are being told they must pay for it, same way you have to in any country where you are not legally living and mostly, even when you're legally there at all.

SPBInDisguise · 15/03/2013 19:01

Sorry Mrsd.
flatbread, I agree with you that the baby should be treated. As I've stated before I think that hte people who think she should should pay. Like everyone else, I'm a sucker for a story. I'm sure there's an II somewhere in the countryill or dying tonight for want of treament but we dont know it. But I dont agree that we should not change the law to extend the NHS's services to people who are here illegally. Which is effectively what you want.

scottishmummy · 15/03/2013 19:03

If i went to USA,and unfortunately got Ill I'd have to pay.that's rules and how it goes

Trazzletoes · 15/03/2013 19:03

'I imagine that this dad was working and paid taxes and NI contributions. Which went towards people on benefits sitting on their asses and tut-tutting about how we shouldn't help this child.'

Yes. In 2008. For 1 year.

I imagine a world where children don't die of cancer. It's imagination, isn't it.

Trazzletoes · 15/03/2013 19:05

expat made the point a lot better than me Thanks

flatbread · 15/03/2013 19:11

expat,

And what if her parents cannot afford the care? Should the child be disabled?

Well, if that is the attitude, why have a welfare state at all? I certainly don't need it. I have private health insurance and enough in the bank.

So I see no point in paying for anyone else. If others cannot afford healthcare or food for their children, too bad. It is the parents responsibility after all.

scottishmummy · 15/03/2013 19:14

Welfare state operates on eligibility it's not universal provision
Just as there are adults who are people without access to funds,based on eligibility