Summer babies do less well academically in part due to streaming.

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www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-21699054

I read this article with great interest and much concern. My 4 yr old daughter, born at the end of August already shows some signs of a lack of confidence and poor concentration when compared to the older kids in her class. Not surprising as some of them are almost a whole year older.
It worries me that she could potentially always be behind and I often question if we made the right decision in starting her schooling at age 4.
I'd be interested in your thoughts and experiences of summer babies in this context. Any tips on confidence issues?

And does anyone have a view on the issue of streaming as mentioned in the article? Her school are about to sort the kids but have not yet decided how. Her teacher said they might do it by age, ability or random. I was keen on the former as it would mean she stays in a class of 20 as opposed to a class of 30.

Eldests 1st school was 45intake so

30youngest reception
15oldest ie pre xmas b day in r1 with 15youngest in year 1 reasoning is only few months between them.
year 1 the middle 15 ie my child feb combined with 15eldest that were in r1 and wasent until year 1 really noticed differences not so much in terms academics as they were other class has no idea at time but confidence/maturity.

Eldest went from being oldest in reception to youngest as jan was cut off.

Her confidence dropped and it was brought to my attention by summer term she was struggling academically.
They had started setting them on tables.
everyone knew each others reading levels and she would cry and say older ones made comments that she was reading baby levels.
Shes just average I guess but was in bottom table for literacy and numeracy in large class of 30 she found it hard to hold her own.

The youngest 15 who were in r1 in reality had better year as split keystages meant ta would take reception ones to play and lot of the teaching was done smaller groups and better teacher than year 1s.
Also the eldest in her year had better teacher in reception. reception was job share wiith main teacher being off sick a lot.
So felt when it got to year 2 the oldest 15 had advantage and the youngest 15 seemed on much higher levels than the middlle.

some july/august people were top table which then knocked daughters confidence further once again she was bottom table for literacy/numeracy and crying that she would never catch up.

also they kept 2 down and moved 2up to the 2/3 class so began to teak at whos in what class.
I have freind whos convinced her july born child is gifted and worriied she be held back in the 2/3class yet the school state its not ability its purly dob but they do ocasionally consider other factors.

Its not that I dont agree with setting/differentiating but it wa clear to all in class what each table meant and some in her clas were very competative and tad point cruel combined with some very pushy parents made me feel like nervous wreck.

So we moved her to small village school 20per year and although they have groups its far ore subtle and everyones an individual shes not lost in the system, shes getting extra help to ensure she catches up to where she needs to be.

I dont think its all age in our case was the school factors such as naughty disruptive kids, poor teachers, no consistant teacher all played a part hated fact mine was average and always in middle as felt in old school middle ones never got much attention.
She is big ie tall for her age and this benefits her in sport yet old school waseent sporty and maybe if they had praised her for that or her art rather than focussed on academics she would have been happier.

I have 2other kids sept born-worried she would have been better starting this year but cant start until next year already she seems more confident than eldest at preschool but think being younger sibling watching eldest makes her seem more grown up.

Youngest boy hes still not talking and 2 next month so near the younger end of year do worry about him.

I do agree smaller classes.

more flexibility around starting would love to start my september child after easter next year as think she be bored stupid by time she starts as be 5 yet her sister was 4.5.

Unsure if to defer youngest to start after xmas or easter.

I would like to see later age starting too and kindergarten brought in as everyone says preschool/nursery same as reception in eldests case it waseent it was straight into reading, phonics and homework fro term 1.

we need informal play education until age 6 give time for younger ones to mature but still socialise.

We behind school leagues of countries that start later so starting at 4 gives us no advantage.

much more focus on preschool education needed as childcares expensive and due to sept birthday got extra year of nursery fees.
Feel nursery was of massive benefit to my kids developement.

15hours come september wouldent be enough to occupy my 4year old.

I know being oldest in year supposed advantage but know she be ready sooner.

I am in the fortunate position of having 3 autumn born children. My youngest is a September born 5yo in her first year at primary. I could not have imagined sending her to Reception a year earlier. She was still napping regularly, was extremely clingy and just would not have coped with 5 days a week.

Now she is a confident, bright girl who still finds school tiring but is able to cope. I think it is ridiculous that schools in this country do not allow parents to hold summer born children back for a year. What on earth could be the reasoning?

Of course there are summer borns who do amazingly well but sadly for many it will mark them for life.

What annoys me about this debate in the UK state system is that if kids were able to slip up and down between year groups it would not be a problem. In other countries it is very common for a summer born slow developer to stay down a year. And slightly more well developed autumn born kids to move up. There is little stigma attached to it.

I would so love my August born year 3 DS to be in the year below... so much so that I am saving every penny I have to try and move him to private so that he can do that soon. I really don't think he is less intelligent he just needs that little extra time to develop. He would be so much more comfortable with his slightly younger peers.

According to our head it boils down to funding issues but it seems so short sighted.

DD is July born, currently year 2. Out of a class of 22 about 8 are June July August. My DD has been a free reader since year 1, and is in top group for both maths and English. She is outperforming children who are almost a year older than her.
I post this to say one cannot generalise, it very much depends on child, their personality, motivation, how involved parents are in education etc etc.
DD started school at 3 and couldn't wait to go. She settled easily into Reception at 4, and has been happy and doing well from the start.

I agree, LaQueen. That's why DD3 (27th August) will be going to a tiny village (59 total pupils) school in September, with two mixed age classes, where she'll most likely be one of less than 9 reception aged children in a class spanning R-yr 2. I really honestly believe this is the best option for her. Our other option is the other end of the spectrum- a reception unit of 63 with two teachers and two TAs all working in the same shared space. I think the mixed aged teaching will allow for a lot more movement than rigid age classes.

DD (July birthday) was put in different sets in primary school. Children were moved up and down around the sets all through primary. This was perfect for her, because she was flying through her maths, but still struggling with reading and spelling. She has been set again at Secondary, but some of her friends attend Secondarys where they have been streamed, which is ridiculous, because not many children are good/bad at all subjects equally.

Being a July baby has not been a problem for her.

Having said that ... I am a September baby and on a recent management training event, we discovered that 80% of the (large) management team were born Sept/Oct/Nov! What are the chances of that?

My dd1 is an early Aug child and she is now 10. She has never struggled in school, she is among the top achievers in her class, confident and mature. In fact she is ahead of some of the september/oct/nov/dec born children.

My dd2 is a may born child and is doing well in school, but seems quite young compared to some of the older ones in her class, not sure yet if this has had an impact or not.

But like a previous poster said we are in wales and the first few years there is a greater emphasis on learning through play

I still think that fact DD's year in a highly selective school is dominated by Autumn-borns is very significant.

Many private schools allow you to drop your summer born down a year. The advice I've received from many heads in the private sector is to always do this even if the child was above average and coping well (which surprised me).

Dd is a late Aug baby and it has been a struggle for her - both socially and academically. She often appears dreamy and distracted and her default when confronted with a new task is to immediately seek help as she "can't do it".

I have thought a lot about why this is the case as dd is apparently fairly bright.

Many years ago, I read "Games People Play" and it occured to me that dd has been cast since reception in the role of class baby and this is now the role she plays. She says she cannot do things because for a long time everyone was watching to see if she needed extra help. Like the poster down thread said, she too would be given the smallest speaking parts etc on the basis that she lacked confidence. She would also be cast in roles that relied on her being cute.

I suspect that this happens to many children who are the youngest in class and that once you recognise it, you can take steps to ease your child into another role.

Talkinpeace - there is a problem with setting, as opposed to streaming: it means that DC in any single class are "all over the place" with their learning and makes them very heterogenous. It does actually facilitate learning if all the DC in a single classroom and it makes it easier to track DC and know where they are. I am all for specialist teachers within a streaming situation in primary, but my experience of setting (from the outset at my DD's school) is that it slows down learning for everyone, right across the board.

I'd argue the exact opposite. I think streaming is a dreadful idea in primary schools. Al it does is ensure that children who struggled at the start stay in the lower streams forevermore.

I think setting does that: it makes it very hard to help the children who don't achieve because it is much harder to track their learning and progress.

Only if the teacher is crap, bonsoir. I'd much prefer a flexible setting arrangement than any streaming.

I agree with Arbitrary. Most UK teachers would beat French ones into a cocked hat in terms of ability to differentiate and teach. French ones tend to have a lot more actual knowledge, but struggle to convey it to every child.

It's not to do with a crap teacher: it is the fact that if you set, as opposed to stream, the number of child-teacher combinations increases dramatically and it is really hard to get all teachers talking to one another about each child. Lots of experience of this, I am afraid!

The English teachers talk a lot about differentiation, but actually I am not that sure they are very good at it (again, talking from experience). Differentiation is the buzz word in Anglo-Saxon teaching but it doesn't bear up to scrutiny.

Can you explain in more detail please Bonsoir?

What don't you understand?

This bit: Differentiation is the buzz word in Anglo-Saxon teaching but it doesn't bear up to scrutiny.

My opinion is that differentiation in classrooms is often discriminatory and plays to the strengths/weaknesses that have been fostered by the home environment or age differential rather than potential. It's fairer, in primary schools, to do whole class teaching in streams as it is easier to measure and track pupils' ability to get to grips with the material.

I think setting is important and differentiation is vital to allow the children to achieve their potential. It stops the bright ones getting bored and the less able getting frustrated and disinterested. Perhaps Bonsoir, your experience is of less than satisfactory schools? You can't stream (if you use the definition further down the thread) and expect to take all the children with you. Some will struggle whilst others will be bored. You can't and shouldn't escape having differentiate in class. You have to encourage all levels not just focus on the top the middle or the bottom and hope the rest come along with you. It won't help anybody.

From my point of view, I have experience at both ends of the spectrum. I have a late July born DS1 who bobbed along the middle of the class expect for reading and spelling where he was in the top set but settled into school well despite have some SEN and was confident and keen to engage with the teacher. Maybe it helped that a 3rd of his year were born in July and August. He was not in the miniority at all. I also have a September born DS2 who took ages to settle into school but is in all the top sets despite being very shy and retiring. They constantly tell me they have to encourage him to speak up and to join in. About 40% of his class are born in the Autumn term and all his close friends are September.

I think perhaps on that basis that the intake they are in makes a difference. Maybe DS2 would have been more confident if there weren't so many older children and maybe DS1 would have been worse off if there had been less summer borns. I am not sure, from the research I have read that that has been considered. It is very difficult to isolate that difference in dynamics unless you have a very large study set. You would need to look at a lot of different classes and their relative ages to see if that were the case.