Summer babies do less well academically in part due to streaming.

[TwistTee]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-21699054

I read this article with great interest and much concern. My 4 yr old daughter, born at the end of August already shows some signs of a lack of confidence and poor concentration when compared to the older kids in her class. Not surprising as some of them are almost a whole year older.
It worries me that she could potentially always be behind and I often question if we made the right decision in starting her schooling at age 4.
I'd be interested in your thoughts and experiences of summer babies in this context. Any tips on confidence issues?

And does anyone have a view on the issue of streaming as mentioned in the article? Her school are about to sort the kids but have not yet decided how. Her teacher said they might do it by age, ability or random. I was keen on the former as it would mean she stays in a class of 20 as opposed to a class of 30.

It's really frustrating how many people are dismissing this research, or saying that it doesn't matter because the bright Summer-born children will still achieve highly.

I have two daughters, one with a June birthday, the other with an August birthday. I'm aware of the research, I am very confident at supporting them in their learning and I will do everything in my power to ensure they aren't disadvantaged. I'm not really worried about them.

But there are thousands of other children born in the summer whose parents won't be able to give them a great deal of support for a wide range of reasons. They're already at a disadvantage. And if they're put into a lower stream group early on because they can't read as well as a child nearly a year older, that can have a profound effect on their self-esteem.

I don't see how anyone can say that it doesn't matter.

I don't think the issue is so much of being the youngest in the class as being too young to cope with the whole package of school. Children mature a lot between 4 and 5 and there's a very good reason imo that school starts at 5/6 in most civilised countries (ie not ours). So being 364 days younger than the oldest child in the class isn't the problem per se, it's being very 4 rather than 5 that is the problem.

The point I'm trying to make is that people shouldn't attach too much weight to "research" like this because there are too many variables to consider in looking at children's attainment, the month of birth is just one small part of that. So I simply don't accept that August children will always be at a disadvantage to September based children. Its down to the individual child.

No, of course August born children will not ALWAYS be at a disadvantage compared to September born children.

However, the evidence says that ON AVERAGE an August born child is likely to do less well than a September born child from a similar background.

This research had been carried out by various different researchers, who know how to apply all sorts of statistical analyses to rule out other possible explanations.

Yes, month of birth is just one factor that affects attainment. But it does affect attainment. Therefore, we should find out more about how to deal with it. Just like we should find out more about how to support children with less educated parents, or children living in poverty.

It isn't "research" Mandy , it is research. And I was a young starter at school and though I did do well academically I was babied by the other girls when I started school as most had started at Easter and only a couple of us started in Sept. Did this harm me in the long run, not sure but I chose a less than inspiring career prob below my capabilities so who's to say that that mightn't have been different if I'd always been one of more capable ones who teacher sought out to 'help'.

Laqueen, yes, certainly annoying if DD is being made use of by the teacher but on the other hand 'helping' the others to learn will expand your DDs understanding, explaining how things are done to people who struggle to grasp is an art in itself imo.

As someone with 2 bright dc who are now at very good universities I'd like to say that ime they have had amazing support form their teachers.

They have not been left to get on with things by themselves at all. In fact DD2's teachers went above and beyond the call of duty with her when she did her A2s as she was going through an awful time. She had extra sessions at lunch times etc by teachers who guided and encouraged her. This was by no means a one off, they did it with dc who needed that extra push.

Should have added they went to our local comp and this school regularly sends students to Oxford. (Not Cambridge for some reason) 2 boys went to Oxford form DDs tutor group this year.

grinkly I don't understand how being looked after by older children as a 4 yr old would have influenced (detrimentally) your choice of career persumably 15-20 years later? Isn't an issue like this down to you as a parent? If you think your child isn't confident enough / well grounded enough to deal with school (whether thats due to age or something else) then you make efforts to change that / build up your child's confidence etc, and if you think your child is in a group for literacy / maths whatever that you're not happy with (irrespective of the basis on which the teacher has assigned your child to a particular group) its down to you to talk to the teacher / school about changing that?

Mandy and others, it has been shown that disadvantage is still there despite parents providing extra support, input etc.

I don't understand why some posters repeatedly deny there is an issue, against the evidence.

Those whose DC are young for their year and doing fine, well that's great, but those DC are bucking the trend.

In Scotland they seem to think it is best for all DC to be at least four and a half before starting school, but it's too early to tell how their policy will turn out in terms of educational and other outcomes.

Well I am talking about a time when parents had no input into schooling - the 60s.

Someone on here was saying what I had thought, that she had not been held back by being an early starter, and that she was a teacher now (as if that was proof).

Couldn't help thinking that maybe she would have been a brain surgeon or CEO if an elder in the class. I assumed I hadn't been affected by being youngest but this thread is making me wonder.

Mandy, you are putting an awful lot of responsibility on the parents.

Do you think that parents always have the power to overcome issues at school? Even when the school has a system where there is a 'bright' class and a 'lower' class, and everyone knows it, as described by am earlier poster (I think it was Taffeta?)

What about the huge group of children whose parents can't or won't be so proactive in their children's education? Should we just write all those children off and just blame it on the parents?

Pozzled - but I think thats the point (and this is a whole other issue and not really whats being discussed on this thread). I do think that education is down to the parents. Of course school has an input, but the adults our children turn out to be will be a result of their homelife / input from parents (whether that be good or bad). Parental approach / encouragement has a massive impact on confidence / attainment / independence / risk taking etc - much more than the month you were born.

Dozer - I am a bit dismissive of the evidence and thats because as I've said, I don't think you can ever get round averages / statistical assumptions etc and that shouldn't apply to individual children. But the bigger question is really what it means even if you choose to accept it as written - and again, there are enough people on here saying their DC are bucking the trend for the OP to take it all with a pinch of salt. Yes, be aware of what some report says about what an average child might do in average circumstances, but focus on your child in your family in your school and react accordingly.

I have an Aug child and he did better in his exams than others who were born in earlier months.

My ds is a summer baby and I considered holding him back in nursery a year. Then I discovered he would have to start in y1 not yR because of his dob if I did that.
The law states children must be educated from the term following their 5th birthday.
All the school places are allocated in yR. a parent is unable to reserve a place for a child they wish to start in y1 due to being a summer baby.
Therefore the "choice" whether to start school at 4 or to continue at nursery until the term following their 5th birthday is not really a choice at all for summer babies. This will leave you with no school place in an over subscribed school. Even if its your catchment school. Even if you have siblings of child at the chosen school (and therefore it wouldn't be possible for you to collect and drop off at two schools at different locations at the same time)!
Effectively mothers are forced to send their children at 4 whether they like it or not (unless they plan to home educate).

Until the day before my ds began school he was still having 2h naps in the afternoon (and sleeping all night too!).
In order to maximise his educational potential and keep him from getting overtired, I take him to school and back in a buggy.

Sadly some other parents are thoughtlessly allowing their children to mock him "look at him, he's a baby in a baby buggy!" Etc at the classroom door occasionally.

I'm an experienced mum of several children. I know from experience how tiring and overwhelming the whole classroom experience can be for a young school starter and so I will continue to take him there and back in the buggy because the days we haven't used it we have had tears, upset and he has fallen asleep before tea time.

He is small for age too which perhaps contributes to his tiredness. That and joint hyper mobility.

He is however aside from occasionally being upset by children at drop off (because I bring him in a buggy), coping marvellously with school work and reading. He is extremely happy and sociable and is reading and writing already! (Infact he was reading after about 3 weeks at school!)

I hope y1 is a positive experience for him too.

He has exceeded all my expectations coping far better than I had anticipated with full time school.

Incidentally today my boy was playing with a good friend of his from school who is a y1 and this boy is one of the eldest in y1 (will be 7 in autumn) and this boy was a good foot taller than my boy in height!
Amazing to think they are only 1 school year apart but almost 2y different in age!

My daughter who is almost 24 is a late August baby. It never held her back whatsoever. She qualified as a medical doctor last August.

There are numerous threads on MN about the impact of summer birthdays. There are always numerous contributors whose own experiences suggest that summer birthday need not be a limiting factor (e.g. me - DD1 was born 31 Aug, has a clutch of A*s at GCSE and hasn't even finished Y11 yet).

As a primary teacher, I differentiate work for the children in my class. Some are strong in both English and maths, others are not. Some have a reading age more than 2 years above their chronological age, some have barely started reading and do not yet know all of their letter sounds. In every class I have taught there have been summer-born children achieving at the higher end of the spectrum. My present class has 10 June, July and August birthdays out of 30. The 'best' performing child has a September birthday, but she is eclipsed by an August-born boy who is hot on her heels despite being 11 months younger.

I'm expecting DC3 in August, 29th August to be exact and I'm keeping everything crossed I go overdue by 3 days (although DS1 and DS2 were both 3 weeks early, so chance is slim).

I'm worrying a lot about it and tbh, it's tainting the enjoyment of my pregnancy a bit. DS1 is October born and in reception and taken to it so well. I'm hoping that by the time DC3 goes to school, I will know enough about it all, to be ultra supportive and do as much as I possibly can at home with him / her. I'm also hoping a third child may be more used to interacting with older children / more confident possibly too. I'm keeping everything crossed!!

Slightly off-topic but the thing about primary grouping that annoys me the most is when I hear people talking about grouping by 'ability'. A teacher said this at my DD's parent meeting at the beginning of the year. Surely it would be more accurate and perhaps more sensitive, given the multitude of factors (including by not only ability) that play into which group children go into (birth month, background experience etc. etc.) to say it was grouping by learning stage or similar?

I thin it depends on whether you see 'ability' as something fixed or not. I'm quite happy for my kids to be grouped by their (current) ability in any task. That's because I see it as the same as learning stage etc, rather than a comment about whether they are 'clever' or not. If they are struggling to learn your times tables, I'd like them grouped so that they can get support in this area. However, I'd be unhappy if that grouping were to mean that they were 'crap at maths' forevermore or 'low intelligence'.

I have twin dd's born 4 weeks prem in the middle of August. They definitely weren't ready for school at just turned four years old and without the added benefit of older siblings, both are very young for their age. A fact that was and is very evident amongst their peer group.

I've had to sadly watch the struggles they endure during their schooling, both socially and academically. Questioning the school continually on the gradual decline of one of my daughters confidence. This has always been brushed off as just August born, youngest of the class, nothing to worry about. They made me feel like a pushy parent wanting their child to be in the top sets, rather then a mother concerned about the struggles and confidence issues of her children.

Now in year 3 they were both finally screened for dyslexia with results of one high and the other moderate. So not only are they both at a disadvantage of being August born they are both dyslexic. In one teachers words 'at a double disadvantage'.

During parents evening I was informed that the results from last Novembers school tests put the girls reading at their correct age and spellings 2 months behind. Yet they are in the lower set, in between bottom and middle groups. Speaking to the teacher she mentioned that had they been 7.8 they would be in the middle group. Obviously this makes those children who are older at an advantage.

Another poster may view my children as not so bright and view me as a parent who doesn't spend the time helping their child with their phonics, reading, maths etc. I personally couldn't give a flying fig. Having spent 3 painful years spending hours after school making up games to help with phonics and reading, enduring many tears and tantrums I have taken a step back. My number one focus is on building their confidence back up, before school sucks what little they have out of them.

Just to add a teacher friend of mine spoke of her daughter who was put on the g&t programme aged just 6 with a reading age of 11. All that occurred was everyone else eventually caught up.

I can't believe the amount of broad brush generalising that is going on in this thread. No, not all children who are just 4 when they start school will necessarily be small, scared, tired, lack confidence or social skills, be behind their older peers etc. Just as not every child born before Christmas will be big and tall and confident and outgoing and bright. Some might fit all or some of the stereotypical criteria, some might fit none of it.

Each child is an individual, despite the time of year they were born, and should be viewed as such.

When my DS started school aged 4yrs 2 weeks he was by no means noticeable as the smallest in the class. He was of average size and I'd say, one of the, if not the most confident, verbally able and outgoing children in the class. He could read and write by the time he started school too, which is nothing remarkable in my view. However, he was not able to dress himself very well in comparison to the others but I put this down to always having done a lot for him and not making him do it for himself. He soon learnt this skill though.

There was a girl in his class who turned 5 in the first week of school. She was huge compared to all the other children, she cried bitterly and clung to her mother every morning for the whole of the first term at least and all this despite being very familiar with the school as she had 2 older sisters there. She was a slow learner and although she didn't, and still doesn't, have any specific or statemented special needs, she remains below average in terms of academic achievement.

There were also many children in his class older than him (well they were all older than him anyway) who had to spend most of the day sitting with the teaching assistant because they lacked the confidence to join in with the others, cried for their mummies or had little "accidents" and needed to come home wearing different trousers/skirts etc. Nothing like this happened to my DS though.

So what do we make of all of this? I say nothing. It just goes to show that all children are individuals who do not need to be pigeon-holed by half-baked research in order to be understood.

It is a fact of life that groups of children will be more or less able than eachother in many ways. They all have different strengths and weaknesses, qualities, skills and abilities. This is affected by a list of variables too numerous to be listed, let alone fully understood.

Listen to and learn from your own child and do whatever you can for them. Education does not begin and end in the classroom.