Is our diet that bad?

[lljkk]

We eat processed meats most days (DC like ham sandwiches for lunch & I have higher quality ssg rolls in fridge as snacks or for breakfast; I thought protein was a good thing, 8yo especially difficult eater). Plus we all like sausages & mince.

13yo was told by school that 33% of his diet should be fruit + veg and only 5% sugars+fats (% volume? % Calories? Not sure which). 13yo reckons he eats 20% F+veg & 20% sugar+fat daily. Thing is, 13yo eats a plate heaped with vegies for 90% of his evening meals, and 90% of days he has less than 80g of biscuits (or similar sugary intake). I honestly thought that was less sugar & a lot more veg than usual.

For UK I still think our diet is better than average, maybe much better than average. Lots of wholemeal options, strict about jam/sugar in porridge, fizzy drinks a rather rare treat. Plenty of fruit for those who like fruit. But am I deluded about what is truly healthy enough?

Thanks floweryhat I'm thinking I might get that machine and go and find me some roadkill. Nitrates shmitrates.

I really don't think that nitrites or nitrates are the issue. Plenty of very good scientific evidence which shows no link between nitrites/nitrates in food and cancer. Also, the bulk of nitrites in our diet comes from vegetables - something considered good for you. Also, nitrites/nitrates do not accumulate in the body, but actually are excreted out in urine. What remains in the body breaks down quickly as these chemicals have a short half life.

I don't necessarily think that salt is the issue either. Cheese is very salty, yet had not been as demonised. Neither have pickles - another very salty food. Actually, some pickles (kimchee in particular) have been shown to have some anti-carcinogenic properties.

I think that a good rule of thumb is just to eat these foods in moderation, and try and eat as much as possible from the original form of the food as possible (i.e, avoid processed foods).

I really think it comes down to moderation in all things.

I try to eat as my DM did/does.

As few processed foods as possible.

Fresh fruit and vegetables (seasonable as much as possible).

Porridge for breakfast with as much fresh fruit as I can pile on.

Can't come at skim milk ( no more can my DM) so full cream it is.

Green tea.

I don't eat bread or butter. I don't even have them in the house.

So how does nitrates effect heart disease? I was thinking that the reason for avoiding processed meat was to help decrease heart disease, so how does nitrates cause heart disease?

Went back to find the bbc news article www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9914283/Processed-meat-blamed-for-one-in-30-early-deaths.html

A 72% increase of dieting from heart disease and an 11% increase of cancer from eating more than 1 oz of processed meat per day

I think you mean "A 72% increased risk of "dying" from heart disease when eating large amounts of processed meats" Thats without the arthritis.!!

probably - though not sure it seems this whole thing is pointing towards nitrates and I can't understand what nitrates have got to do with heart disease.

This whole thread seems to be zooming in on one aspect and not looking at the broader picture, which is to reduce your intake of processed foods to 7oz per week or less to improve your chances of not suffering from CHD, which actually is an awful disease to live with.

is 7oz a large amount of anything per week though pp?

As the telegraph says today the proper headline ought to have said - red meat good for you and does you no harm.

However that does not sell papers.

No it's not ivy but they're talking about processed meats for every meal and or snacks aren't they? Nitrites and nitrates and metabisulphites (which is the worst as someone upthread said) are all preservatives I think so not proper food; they're there for the manufacturers and shops.

Red meat is good for SOME people xenia I can't stand it and I'm the healthiest person I know!!!

I thought it was old news really, but just took it as a reminder to try and eat as little processed food in general - we've been really bad lately and have been quite reliant on it.

this is interesting - \link{http://chriskresser.com/the-nitrate-and-nitrite-myth-another-reason-not-to-fear-bacon\The Nitrate and Nitrite Myth: Another Reason not to Fear Bacon}

it's American but I assume they make bacon the same way we do?

(I love bacon so am looking for reasons not to have to eat less )

"It may surprise you to learn that the vast majority of nitrate/nitrite exposure comes not from food, but from endogenous sources within the body. In fact, nitrites are produced by your own body in greater amounts than can be obtained from food, and salivary nitrite accounts for 70-90% of our total nitrite exposure. In other words, your spit contains far more nitrites than anything you could ever eat"

gosh

They don't mention metabisulphites though and the amount of sugars and injected water in most bacon makes it weigh more (deliberately) so you're paying for water basically.

metabisulphites???

I usually get the drycure - that doesn't have much water in (none oozes out anyway) - no idea about sugar

Sodium metabisulfite is E223 preservative, I think, and it seems to be used in wine, bread, crisps etc.

www.food-info.net/uk/e/e223.htm

There are preservatives and additives in lots of our foods. How bad they are, I don't know.

But I am not put off by their reports on processed meat. I think there are worse things such as soya, aspartame etc.

'The European Food Safety Authority has published a draft scientific opinion effectively rubbishing more than 20 studies which have identified potential problems with the sweetener, ranging from premature births to cancer.
The authority?s view will be welcomed by manufacturers who use aspartame and similar sweeteners in fizzy drinks such as Diet Coke, and diet foods consumed by millions of people every day.'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2290544/Aspartame-Cancer-premature-birth-fears-linked-fizzy-drink-sweetener.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Depends what you believe. I will carry on enjoying bacon and ham sarnies and give the aspartame a swerve, whatever they say.

There is a bigger picture in the campaigns against meat - the old "save the planet" spiel.

Found the original study itself, here:-

www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7015/11/63

Having skipped to the 'Discussion' bit at the end this is what is says:-

"we observed a consistent association between processed meat consumption and total mortality but not between red meat consumption and total mortality. Processed meats such as sausages, salami and bacon have a higher content of saturated fatty acids and cholesterol than fresh red meat; the latter is often consumed after removing the visible fat tissue, whereas the proportion of fat in sausages often reaches 50% of the weight or even more. Both high saturated fat and cholesterol intake have been found to be related to the risk of coronary heart disease [2]. Also, processed meat is treated by salting, curing, or smoking in order to improve the durability of the food and/or to improve color and taste. These processes, however, lead to an increased intake of carcinogens or their precursors (polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, heterocyclic aromatic amines, nitrosamines) or to a high intake of specific compounds possibly enhancing the development of carcinogenic processes (for example, nitrite)."

So it seems they are theorising that it is potentially a dual cause - both the high fat content of processed, uncured meat (ie UK style fresh sausages) as well as cured products such as ham, bacon etc.

'Sir John Beddington, the current chief scientist, warned two years ago of a "perfect storm" of growing human numbers, climate change and food shortages, where it would be "very hard to see how it would be remotely sensible to justify not using new technologies such as GM".

www.independent.co.uk/news/science/ready-to-eat-the-first-gm-fish-for-the-dinner-table-8430639.html

So GM will one day probably be passed as safe and will probably get a seal of approval for help with "saving the planet", but some will tell us to watch out for our ham sandwich, it could harm you as well as "harm the planet". Someone above said that ham was pig's leg. Is someone pulling our leg?

If man made it don't eat it, is not a bad maxim by which to eat. On that basis the more processed a food the worse it is likely to be. Crispy crem donuts - bad. Fish good. Fresh steak better than processed bacon etc etc

As the 60% of UK and US people who are overweight tend to major on the donuts, chocolates, sweets, crisps and other sundry junk, nuances such as how much veg compared to fruit is good and how many slices of bacon is neither here nor there.

www.psychologytoday.com/blog/naughty-nutrition/201207/bacon-the-feel-good-food

What Xenia said.....so so true.

Well GM is going to be useful in flooded land isn't it claig "unless they use a fish gene in the wheat yum. Of course the changeability of the weather will mean if you've got a fish gene in the wheat you'll also have to put a gene in it to cope with drought conditions I'm not sure that'd work

ppeatfruit, I like GM cars but not the "save the planet" scientists' GM food.