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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Hilary Mantel makes a good point

544 replies

juneau · 19/02/2013 08:15

She shouldn't have said it, since it's bitchy and uncalled for (and I actually find HM rather odd, if I'm honest), but after a good couple of years in the media spotlight I struggle to think of one thing the Duchess of Cambridge thinks or believes in. She never gives an opinion, she barely speaks, she just looks pretty and smiles.

OP posts:
PetiteRaleuse · 20/02/2013 09:47

I think Cameron did speak prematurely, but it won't do him any harm with his core supporters, in fact, as seeker says he will be a knight in shining armour..

scottishmummy · 20/02/2013 09:48

Cameron trying to be all street,innit. one is using popular vernacular
And in getting it so wrong showing what an out of touch horah he really is Stick to losing the weans in the pub Dave,you're good at that

pofacedplot · 20/02/2013 09:49

Quite seeker.

Who is RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie PetitRaleuse? I haven't been here for a while and wondered if it were a namechanger. Odd that she would post that thread title and admit she hadn't even read the essay, just listened to the BBC news. Hmm

PrincessFiorimonde · 20/02/2013 09:50

seeker, I think you're spot on there.

Shame that Ed Miliband felt he had to do the same thing.

pofacedplot · 20/02/2013 09:51

i expected it from Cameron, but from Miliband - it just shows that there is nothing between them in terms of intellectual and cultural twatness.

PetiteRaleuse · 20/02/2013 09:51

I don't know pofaced I don't tend to notice poster's names very much.

dapplegrey · 20/02/2013 09:51

Mother Inferior - " we should line them up against the wall and shoot them"
As you feel like that you would probably like to be the one that pulls the trigger. Would you shoot the adults first so you can take pleasure in watching the children's reaction?
Or would you shoot the children first, maybe Prince Edward's young ones, so you can watch the parents' dismay and horror?

claig · 20/02/2013 09:51

'Yes, I believe that some areas of the media deliberately treat consumers as idiots, keeping them ignorant.'

Agree entirely. That is why I stopped buying the Guardian.

Thanks to whoever linked the LRB article by Mantel. I don't think her LRB article is a good one and I think garlic made a good analysis of it, but I think the media (and particularly) the Daily Mail has jumped on it and distorted it for populist purposes. For the Prime Minister to comment seems way over the top. I don't agree with Mantel, but I believe in free speech and don't think that political leaders should jump on bandwagons, but that is what they often do.

scottishmummy · 20/02/2013 09:53

Oh get your ego back in a box,opining on the great British public.socialsciencetastic rot
You're as bad as Cameron,claiming to know and understand mass sentimentality and opinion
But of course,you,clever seeker has risen above the debacle to opine upon masses.good for you

pofacedplot · 20/02/2013 09:54

Irony, dapplegrey, irony. Dear God.

PrincessFiorimonde · 20/02/2013 09:54

Yes, Cameron definitely trying to be 'street'. I know it's off the point, but apparently in a recent TV interview he claimed not to know what 'Magna Carta' translates as in English. That was money well spent on an Eton education, then.

Can't his advisers point out that no-one is fooled by his 'man of the people' act?

PetiteRaleuse · 20/02/2013 09:54

Thing is one of them - Miliband or Cameron- will have commented first and the other will have been told the other has commented so will have rushed out a comment. Otherwise they would have been worried about being attacked by the rpess for remaining silent. This is the problem with fast moving news - they feel they need to produce soundbites. This is one of the many times they should have thought first. Anyway, as mentioned above, won't have done them much harm

StoicButStressed · 20/02/2013 09:56

To all those who are critiquing others for being 'uninformed' 'thickos'Sad, and advising them to read more before commenting.... I give you this:

A post made c.6.30pm last night:

'I just see that KM has an incredible opportunity to do something meaningful, a chance most of us would relish, no? Yet she chooses to hang around the palace, planning holidays and picking her outfits. She could make such a difference to so many charities by simply turning up, lending a hand, having her picture taken and writing some blurb for their brochure. It's not even hard to care and do good, is it?'

By the time that post was written (& de facto before all written subsequently) KM had spent yesterday in private meetings with both residents and workers at Hope House, a rehab facility for women in recovery from addiction; and also spent some of same day at same place in more 'public' mode - IE. Press allowed in, pics taken.... Same pics in papers today that (alongside all the predictable stuff re bump etc), have served to raise awareness of Action On Addiction (the charity that, amongst other facilities) runs & finances Hope House. Soooooo, IMVHO:

  1. If you're going to slate someone point out someone else should have 'read more' before posting their own, de facto valid, personal opinions; perhaps that should apply to you/all of us too?

  2. Manifestly, she IS making a difference to charities - and had already done so yesterday by the time someone suggested that's what she SHOULD be doing? So prob best any debate is based on ALL facts, rather than simply the most convenient ones to anyone's personal POV?

  3. Lastly, IMHO, think we could all do with a bit less vitriol (whether it's directed at HM or KM), and we could DEF do with a bit less slagging off of other women - disagreeing is one thing; calling people 'thickos' for not agreeing with you is something else entirely. Sad

pofacedplot · 20/02/2013 09:57

HOW DID HE GET A FIRST.

TunipTheVegedude · 20/02/2013 09:58

I didn't know Miliband had weighed in too. Strewth.

pofacedplot · 20/02/2013 09:59

Stoic you are missing the point entirely.

TunipTheVegedude · 20/02/2013 10:00

LOL, regardless of how much Latin he remembers, I think Cam's parents got excellent value from his Eton education.

seeker · 20/02/2013 10:00

Politicians very rarely do anything that isn't calculated or manipulative.

When, as the cliche goes, this is tomorrow's chip wrapper, Cameron will have gone up in the public estimation.

scottishmummy · 20/02/2013 10:01

Let's be clear wee faces Sad, lists and teachery tones don't cut it
I not be reprimanded or moderate posts because someone posts now come on gerls
Mnhq can wade in if they think it's gorn to far

claig · 20/02/2013 10:03

'I didn't know Miliband had weighed in too'

Not surprised. The Daily Mail is very powerful and runs the political agenda and all the spin doctors and policy chiefs advise the politicians to get onside with the Mail and the people.

It is ridiculous and even though I don't agree with Mantel and think her article in LRB was not a good one, I now feel sorry for her.

seeker · 20/02/2013 10:04

Scottishmummy- I suspect that MNHQ won't intervene because you are largely incomprehensible!

PrincessFiorimonde · 20/02/2013 10:04

I think it's telling that the HM lecture was delivered a fortnight ago. Don't you think the Mail might have deliberately chosen not to run its piece immediately, but to wait for a day when KM was due to make the first public (charity-oriented) appearance that she's made for a while? Thus the subtext is 'Look at someone criticising Kate just when she's doing all this charity work.'

StoicButStressed · 20/02/2013 10:06

Pofaced: Stoic you are missing the point entirely.

Am I? Wow, how fortunate I am to have someone else able to point that out to me. Perhaps you'd like to tell me what else I am missing or comment on my other thoughts/my brain/my body, since you clearly know much more than I do about the point I wanted to (& did) make?

LessMissAbs · 20/02/2013 10:06

Mantel very cleverly writes about the media image of the Duchess and provides soundbites which will linger in the press...Cameron has jumped on the bandwagon of popularity (is anyone taken in?)...but I find the whole thing points to a depressing trend in modern British society - that its still considered by most that a young woman should have no greater wish in life than to be "saved" and married by a prince, and that its ok and indeed commendable to spend most of her life carefully avoiding doing anything that might jeapordise that chance of marriage.

Kate Middleton has had many advantages in life - she is healthy, athletic and reasonably clever, she came from a secure wealthy background, was expensively educated and equipped with the social skills to move in even more wealthy circles. I have no doubt that she and William are a true love match, but I cannot admire the woman. If she had displayed one bit of talent and achievement in any field, whether it be work, sport, the arts, whatever, before getting married and setlling down to be the royal broodmare, I would feel otherwise.

Compare her to Zara Phillips - again born into many advantages but an Olympic, World and European medallist in a sport nonethless. (yes its generally regarded an elitist sport, but most eventers come from similarly or even wealthier backgrounds). At least she has not sat around, plotting her path through the echolons of society, based on not making any mistakes.

I think Kate is a terrible role model - its such a waste of a life to encourage women that all they should aim for in life is staying quiet and in the background in order to fit in. And there are too many men who feel threatened by the real achievements of women - David Cameron being one example. Hilary Mantel, for all her faults, has achieved far more of note and real merit than Kate will probably ever do.

claig · 20/02/2013 10:08

'Politicians very rarely do anything that isn't calculated or manipulative.'

Agree with seeker. This has played well with the crowd for Cameron and Miliband, but has diminished them in the eyes of more discerning voters. But the discerning voters are in the minority so it doesn't really matter.