Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

News

Flip

Original poster

Very upsetting story (not nice)

25 replies

Kathlean · 26/04/2006 17:15

A man on license after 20 years for murder has been jailed for life with no minimum sentance for the rape of a 10 year old boy.

Sorry I don't know how to do links but it looks like at lease one judge has some sense. I assume that no minimum sentace means that he will be in there a long time.

Nothing seems to work anymore, prison obviously isn't a deterrant as this guy told police he wanted to go back inside. So many people are just out for themselves and don't give a shit about anyone or anything.

OP posts:

cataloguequeen · 26/04/2006 17:21

too true Kath, as I have said before total castration for these b*stards they cannot be cured... at least they cannot have sexual feelings

hulababy · 26/04/2006 17:23

Prison is rarely a deterrent for criminals. One half think they'll not get caught (so isn't a worry), other half are used to the environment and don't mind it (occupation hazard for some, institutionalised for others).

All being well this man will not be put up for parole or early release for many many years.

Twiglett · 26/04/2006 17:23

um I thought a minimum sentence meant the minimum time to be served before any chance of parole .. if I'm right then not setting a minimum sentence would mean he could apply for parole earlier .. hope I'm wrong

hulababy · 26/04/2006 17:25

Link tos tory \link{http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_yorkshire/4946644.stm\here}

hulababy · 26/04/2006 17:37

Twiglett - this may be the reason, taken from a case report on Ian Huntly:

"Next it is of importance to bear in mind that the 2003 statute carefully seeks to avoid the making of any minimum order ........so as to avoid the statute creating any retro-active effect: no defendant may receive a harsher penalty than that for which the law provided at the time he committed the offence.

...

The purpose of this hearing is to make a public announcement of my order of the minimum period which the Defendant should serve before the Parole Board may consider his release on licence or whether I should make no such order, with the effect that his release on licence could never be considered by the Parole Board.

...

In suitable cases, the result might even be a minimum term of thirty years (equivalent to 60 years) which would offer little or no hope of the offender's eventual release. In cases of exceptional gravity, the judge, rather than setting a whole life minimum term, can state that there is no minimum period which could properly be set in that particular case. ""

Chandra · 26/04/2006 17:37

Why do they call it life when they only serve a few years? to reduce the anger of the public? sometimes I think that justice is a joke.

As for rapist and paedophiles, they should receive castration as a sentence after they reincide... they will never change, it's in their nature.

hulababy · 26/04/2006 17:41

The LIFE sentence refers to their license, not their imprisonment. They may be released earlier, but remain on license for life, meaning if they breach their license requirements they can be called back into prison with no notice.

hulababy · 26/04/2006 18:39

Just seen this on news now and they say this it is now very unlikely that he will ever be released again.

hub2dee · 26/04/2006 19:21

This differentiation between license and imprisonment is interesting hula. Thanks for mentioning it. If you have a mo could you write a couple of lines explaining the difference ? (I know I'm just being lazy and avoiding a google sess).

hulababy · 26/04/2006 19:27

Erm..I'll try. Not that up on all the terminology and stuff, only what I have picked up so far at work. This is what I think it means.

By imprisonment I simply mean the period that they are IN prison. Each prisoner gets an EDR - this is the date they are released if they do not get parole or HDC.

Their end of sentence date is usually (although not always I don;t think) after than this. The prisoner is then on license after they are released, either on HDC, parole or at EDR. There are conditions attached to this license - can be to do further reoffending behaviour work, curfews, bars from certain areas/people, restrictions on activities, etc. If the prisoner breaks, or breaches, those conditions then they can be brought back into prison on breach of license. This may or may not go to court. And the prisoner may or may not get extra days added to their original sentence date for the crime of breach of license.

Does that make sense????

hulababy · 26/04/2006 19:29

Some of the terms have changed more recently and we are starting to come across these now in my job. The rules on how sentences, parole and release dates are worked out have changed too - so currently working with two systems. Still trying to get my head round some of it!!!

MerlinsBeard · 26/04/2006 19:33

what is HDC? figured that EDR was estimated date of release

hulababy · 26/04/2006 19:34

This explains the new system quite well, and much better than I could explain the system (the other I wrote explains the old system):

Is the sentence passed in court the time someone will serve in prison?

The sentence expiry date (the date on which the sentence ends) is calculated from the date sentence is passed. All custodial sentences, (apart from life sentences, which are governed by different rules) include time served in prison and time served in the community, so the person will not be in prison for the whole of the sentence.

How much time will they spend in prison?

This depends on a number of factors, including the length of the sentence:

if the sentence is less than 12 months, the prisoner will get Automatic unconditional release (ACR) at the half way point (eg after 3 months of a 6 month sentence), serving half of their sentence in prison. From release until the sentence expiry date, they are classified as "at risk". This means that if, during this time, they commit a further imprisonable offence, the court may order them to complete their sentence in prison in addition to any sentence for the new offence.

if the sentence is 12 months or more, but less than 4 years, the person serves half their sentence in prison, and then gets Automatic conditional release. They are released at the half way mark on* license. This means that they are subject to conditions - the conditions will include regular meetings with a probation officer and possibly other conditions such as living at a specified address or undergoing treatment for a drug or alcohol problem. Breaching the conditions can result in a return to court and serving the rest of the sentence in prison. The license lasts until three quarters of the way through the sentence. From then until the sentence expiry date they are "at risk". (See above)

sentences of 4 years or more (but not life) are subject to Discretionary conditional release (DCR), which means that the prisoner becomes eligible for release at the half way stage. It is not automatic, but is at the discretion of the Parole Board. If release is approved, they are released on license. If not, they serve two thirds of their sentence in prison and are then released on license. The final quarter of the sentence is spent in the community "at risk". If released on DCR licence they remain on licence until the three quarter point of their sentence.

People convicted of sexual offences may be required by the court to remain on license until the sentence expiry date.

What else might affect the amount of time served in prison?

Time spent on remand will be deducted from the time spent in prison. However, nothing that counts towards the calculation of the sentence served shall have the effect of reducing the period for which the licence is in force to less than a quarter of the sentence for ACRs and half the sentence for DCRs.

If a prisoner breaks prison rules, they may receive additional days in prison, meaning that their release or parole eligibility will be put back. This does not mean that the whole of their sentence is being increased - just the proportion of it they will spend in prison. The sentence expiry date stays the same, unless they actually commit an imprisonable offence and are given an additional sentence.

Are the rules for young offenders the same?

A young person under 21 serving less than 12 months will be under supervision for at least three months after release, or up to their 22nd birthday, if this is sooner. For those serving more than 12 months the rules are the same.

hulababy · 26/04/2006 19:35

HDC - home detention curfew - or tagging
EDR - yes, think so

hulababy · 26/04/2006 19:36

There may be some prison officers or something simialr on MN, or partners of, who could explain it better, and probably more accurately!

hub2dee · 26/04/2006 22:07

Thank you for this Hula. You've explained some other bits of sentencing / terms to me before.... it's all very strange IMHO... not at all how I imagine a lay person perceives the system to work IYSWIM !

Thanks again.

hulababy · 26/04/2006 22:21

I have certainly learnt lots since starting work here, and you are right - much of it is not how the lay person would percieve sentencing to work, especially the idea of life. I have been pretty suprised about what real prison is actually like!

ma2cra · 26/04/2006 22:25

It's confusing for those working in the system, let alone a "lay person", not helped by the fact that it has all changed recently and currently working with two sets of rules.

Funnily enough though, the offenders seem to have it sussed.

hub2dee · 26/04/2006 22:30

hula - does the bullying and violence often perceived on the telly / in films to be 'life inside' really exist ? Does it generally feel very 'lawless' inside or better controlled that that IYSWIM...

hub2dee · 26/04/2006 22:30

hula - does the bullying and violence often perceived on the telly / in films to be 'life inside' really exist ? Does it generally feel very 'lawless' inside or better controlled that that IYSWIM...

hub2dee · 26/04/2006 22:30

(sorry if that's a bit naïve !)

hulababy · 27/04/2006 21:06

Yes, very confusing at times, and yes the prisoners do have it sussed - but then they are only working with one system at a time I guess.

hub2dee - there is a big gang culture and there is aggression and vilence. however this is not that obvious to most staff, other than wing officers. This is because it tends to happen mostly, though not always, during the evening association time. I actually find it a very safe and secure environment to workin - and certainly find it safer than the secondary school I was working in previously!

mrsbang · 28/04/2006 01:08

I agree Hulababy, having worked within the criminal justice system for a long time (in an admin role) and having witnessed the behaviour of some schoolchildren.

(I was ma2cra)

hub2dee · 28/04/2006 07:03

That says something truly terrible about our schools, hey, Hula !

hulababy · 28/04/2006 11:25

You said is hub2dee! I won't ever teach secondary school again. Give me high security (and low) prisoners anytime!

Flip